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RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - TheGreenMan - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 07:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(26-04-2021, 07:28 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote: I’d still like to know what Barnsley’s manager excuse is for getting them into a play off position with someone else’s team????
No doubt they’ve over achieved aswell.
Bit unfair comparing CH to a team that have impressively but fairly randomly massively overachieved. How about comparing him to almost every other manager?
I wouldn’t say they’ve over achieved. I personally don’t get that about over achieving, you deserve to finish in the position you find yourself in no matter who you are.
I think you’ll find they’re in the position they are because the manager has got them playing as a team, they’ve given teams an actual fight instead of just lying down and giving up as soon as the referee blows for kick off and actually taken the games to the opposition.
But yeah we have scored three goals against the mighty Millwall, QPR & Wycombe so I should be entirely grateful for that.....What time does the open top bus parade start :D :D :D
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 26-04-2021
So to those who want CH gone who do you want to realistically to replace him? Another unknown shit foreign manager (not my words) like Barnsley? Or a British manager with Championship experience (not my words) like Forest for example.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Salvatore Matrecano - 26-04-2021
I dont want to see CH gone but I am starting to question whether his methods are getting dated when you look at how Farke, Munoz and Ismael’s sides play, you will note they are all shit foreign managers. Our last foreign manager also guided us to our highest finish in the last 10 seasons but popular opinion seems to now be to declare him shit too and blame him for last summers transfers.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - wassy04 - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 08:17 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote:(26-04-2021, 07:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(26-04-2021, 07:28 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote: I’d still like to know what Barnsley’s manager excuse is for getting them into a play off position with someone else’s team????
No doubt they’ve over achieved aswell.
Bit unfair comparing CH to a team that have impressively but fairly randomly massively overachieved. How about comparing him to almost every other manager?
I wouldn’t say they’ve over achieved. I personally don’t get that about over achieving, you deserve to finish in the position you find yourself in no matter who you are.
I think you’ll find they’re in the position they are because the manager has got them playing as a team, they’ve given teams an actual fight instead of just lying down and giving up as soon as the referee blows for kick off and actually taken the games to the opposition.
But yeah we have scored three goals against the mighty Millwall, QPR & Wycombe so I should be entirely grateful for that.....What time does the open top bus parade start :D :D :D
Pretty simple logic, they overachieved based on pre-season expectations which would've had them in the bottom 6. They've also overachieved when looking at wages, budgets, transfers, squad size etc. All metrics that generally give you an indication of what the likely league table would look like.
FYI, on similar metrics we underachieved although not as much as some seem to think. Based on above 10th would've been reasonable for us.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Paplane - 26-04-2021
I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - ThePromisedLand - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
Why single out Grabban?
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Paplane - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
Why single out Grabban?
Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Strawberry Avenger - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
Why single out Grabban?
Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.
He's had 3 significant injuries this season and crap service. And still scored 6 goals.
He missed a turkey on Sat'. Sure. He's missed as many as he's scored in recent seasons. He's had far more chances created in the last couple of seasons. But he did score a 'natural' Grabban poacher goal to secure the draw with a nice cross from Knocker.
He did get 20 last season with better service from Ameobi and others. And scored some belters. I'm not sure I want to throw him under the bus for last Summer's recruitment problems.
He's worth another season. Not sure Lyle is. We do need to recruit better service and of course younger strikers this Summer. We've relied on the 'Grabban' only policy for the last 2 seasons and it's not surprising he's knackered and had so many injuries. Over reliance on Lolley has also seen him break down too. Two players who have taken a physical pounding over the last couple of seasons. They've played alot of games.
SA.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - ThePromisedLand - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
Why single out Grabban?
Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.
Sorry Pap I have to disagree.
Last season he scored 10 goals in the first half of the season ( featured in every game ).
In the second half he missed the Charlton game but still scored 10 goals.
Exactly the same return despite the team misfunctioning so badly.
And this season? Compare his return with those of Murray & Taylor - compares favourably.
And how many goals have Knockaert, Lolley, Krozinovic, Garner, Yates contributed?
Has he been poor this season? Yes - but there are mitigating circumstances & he’s not alone. A truncated season due to injury & playing in a team that just hasn’t gelled at all.
The guy - imho - gets unmerciful stick with no real justification.
If I were he I’d be off - to somewhere I’m appreciated.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Strawberry Avenger - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
Why single out Grabban?
Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.
I do feel a 'bit' for Grabban. I kind of agree with what you're saying. As Hughton opted for a safety 1st policy, the chances for Grabban would dry up. And what chances you do have only magnify the fact that Grabban has always been hit and miss but if you give him plenty of chances he will get you goals.
In an injury blighted season (3 injuries?) having his goal scoring cut to about a third makes sense?
Asking any striker to play a lone furrow is a bit much. All the more when he's a natural poacher. And not a Murray or Stan Collymore type.
SA.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Strawberry Avenger - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 11:28 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
Why single out Grabban?
Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.
Sorry Pap I have to disagree.
Last season he scored 10 goals in the first half of the season ( featured in every game ).
In the second half he missed the Charlton game but still scored 10 goals.
Exactly the same return despite the team misfunctioning so badly.
The guy - imho - gets unmerciful stick with no real justification.
:cool:
His goal tally reflects last Summer's recruitment and his injuries.
His cohorts in Lolley and Ameobi have been injured or out of form. Because we've been heavily reliant on them on the last two seasons. Players get burned out. They get old. They get injured.
Can I run faster now then when I was 5?
SA.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Paplane - 26-04-2021
(26-04-2021, 11:28 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.
Why single out Grabban?
Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.
Sorry Pap I have to disagree.
Last season he scored 10 goals in the first half of the season ( featured in every game ).
In the second half he missed the Charlton game but still scored 10 goals.
Exactly the same return despite the team misfunctioning so badly.
And this season? Compare his return with those of Murray & Taylor - compares favourably.
And how many goals have Knockaert, Lolley, Krozinovic, Garner, Yates contributed?
Has he been poor this season? Yes - but there are mitigating circumstances & he’s not alone. A truncated season due to injury & playing in a team that just hasn’t gelled at all.
The guy - imho - gets unmerciful stick with no real justification.
If I were he I’d be off - to somewhere I’m appreciated.
OK, I've just looked up his stats too and I can present an alternative view.
Since he scored at Reading on 22.01.20 he's played 43 league games for us and scored 11 goals. 1 goal every 4 games.
Between the beginning of last season and that Reading game in January '20 he scored 16 goals in 28 games. 1 goal every 1.75 games.
His goals tally has fallen off a cliff, which is a problem when you're the only goal scorer in the side.
I've defended him in the past. I like him, I had huge admiration for the way he slogged away on his own, as the only senior striker in the club under Sabri, playing on his own up front. He put hard yards in which was hugely commendable but he was asked to do too much. It may not be his fault but his goals have dried up and it's gone on for over a calendar year now. Hughton gets interviewed after every game and says the same thing, we need to put away the chances we create. For me the problem is he spends too long outside the box as if he's still playing in Sabri's side. Even Steve Sutton said on Saturday how good it was seeing him in the box and poaching a goal, as if it was unusual to find him in that position.