(26-04-2021, 08:50 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 08:17 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 07:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 07:28 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote: I’d still like to know what Barnsley’s manager excuse is for getting them into a play off position with someone else’s team????

No doubt they’ve over achieved aswell.

Bit unfair comparing CH to a team that have impressively but fairly randomly massively overachieved. How about comparing him to almost every other manager?

I wouldn’t say they’ve over achieved. I personally don’t get that about over achieving, you deserve to finish in the position you find yourself in no matter who you are. 

I think you’ll find they’re in the position they are because the manager has got them playing as a team, they’ve given teams an actual fight instead of just lying down and giving up as soon as the referee blows for kick off and actually taken the games to the opposition. 

But yeah we have scored three goals against the mighty Millwall, QPR & Wycombe so I should be entirely grateful for that.....What time does the open top bus parade start  :D :D :D

Pretty simple logic, they overachieved based on pre-season expectations which would've had them in the bottom 6. They've also overachieved when looking at wages, budgets, transfers, squad size etc. All metrics that generally give you an indication of what the likely league table would look like.

FYI, on similar metrics we underachieved although not as much as some seem to think. Based on above 10th would've been reasonable for us.

(26-04-2021, 12:26 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 11:28 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.

Why single out Grabban?

Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.

Sorry Pap I have to disagree.

Last season he scored 10 goals in the first half of the season ( featured in every game ).
In the second half he missed the Charlton game but still scored 10 goals. 
Exactly the same return despite the team misfunctioning so badly.

And this season? Compare his return with those of Murray & Taylor - compares favourably.
And how many goals have Knockaert, Lolley, Krozinovic, Garner, Yates contributed?

Has he been poor this season? Yes - but there are mitigating circumstances & he’s not alone. A truncated season due to injury & playing in a team that just hasn’t gelled at all.

The guy - imho - gets unmerciful stick with no real justification.

If I were he I’d be off - to somewhere I’m appreciated.

OK, I've just looked up his stats too and I can present an alternative view.

Since he scored at Reading on 22.01.20 he's played 43 league games for us and scored 11 goals. 1 goal every 4 games. 

Between the beginning of last season and that Reading game in January '20 he scored 16 goals in 28 games. 1 goal every 1.75 games.

His goals tally has fallen off a cliff, which is a problem when you're the only goal scorer in the side.

I've defended him in the past. I like him, I had huge admiration for the way he slogged away on his own, as the only senior striker in the club under Sabri, playing on his own up front. He put hard yards in which was hugely commendable but he was asked to do too much. It may not be his fault but his goals have dried up and it's gone on for over a calendar year now. Hughton gets interviewed after every game and says the same thing, we need to put away the chances we create. For me the problem is he spends too long outside the box as if he's still playing in Sabri's side. Even Steve Sutton said on Saturday how good it was seeing him in the box and poaching a goal, as if it was unusual to find him in that position.

(26-04-2021, 12:50 PM)TheGreenMan Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 08:50 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 08:17 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 07:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 07:28 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote: I’d still like to know what Barnsley’s manager excuse is for getting them into a play off position with someone else’s team????

No doubt they’ve over achieved aswell.

Bit unfair comparing CH to a team that have impressively but fairly randomly massively overachieved. How about comparing him to almost every other manager?

I wouldn’t say they’ve over achieved. I personally don’t get that about over achieving, you deserve to finish in the position you find yourself in no matter who you are. 

I think you’ll find they’re in the position they are because the manager has got them playing as a team, they’ve given teams an actual fight instead of just lying down and giving up as soon as the referee blows for kick off and actually taken the games to the opposition. 

But yeah we have scored three goals against the mighty Millwall, QPR & Wycombe so I should be entirely grateful for that.....What time does the open top bus parade start  :D :D :D

Pretty simple logic, they overachieved based on pre-season expectations which would've had them in the bottom 6. They've also overachieved when looking at wages, budgets, transfers, squad size etc. All metrics that generally give you an indication of what the likely league table would look like.

FYI, on similar metrics we underachieved although not as much as some seem to think. Based on above 10th would've been reasonable for us.

Oh come on surely you like myself have been following football for long enough to know that predictions & expectations of where teams will finish mean absolutely nothing once the season gets underway. 

If a team is challenging for a play off spot or an auto place going into February they’d be fairly disappointed if they didn’t achieve said position come the end of the season no matter what the pre season expectations were. 

If we’re just going to go by expectations & predictions we might aswell not play the season and do it by predictions then instead.

(26-04-2021, 08:30 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: So to those who want CH gone who do you want to realistically to replace him? Another unknown S**t foreign manager (not my words) like Barnsley? Or a British manager with Championship experience (not my words) like Forest for example.

(26-04-2021, 08:38 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: I dont want to see CH gone but I am starting to question whether his methods are getting dated when you look at how Farke, Munoz and Ismael’s sides play, you will note they are all S**t foreign managers. Our last  foreign manager also guided us to our highest finish in the last 10 seasons but popular opinion seems to now be to declare him S**t too and blame him for last summers transfers.

(26-04-2021, 12:26 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 11:28 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.

Why single out Grabban?

Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.

Sorry Pap I have to disagree.

Last season he scored 10 goals in the first half of the season ( featured in every game ).
In the second half he missed the Charlton game but still scored 10 goals. 
Exactly the same return despite the team misfunctioning so badly.

And this season? Compare his return with those of Murray & Taylor - compares favourably.
And how many goals have Knockaert, Lolley, Krozinovic, Garner, Yates contributed?

Has he been poor this season? Yes - but there are mitigating circumstances & he’s not alone. A truncated season due to injury & playing in a team that just hasn’t gelled at all.

The guy - imho - gets unmerciful stick with no real justification.

If I were he I’d be off - to somewhere I’m appreciated.

OK, I've just looked up his stats too and I can present an alternative view.

Since he scored at Reading on 22.01.20 he's played 43 league games for us and scored 11 goals. 1 goal every 4 games. 

Between the beginning of last season and that Reading game in January '20 he scored 16 goals in 28 games. 1 goal every 1.75 games.

His goals tally has fallen off a cliff, which is a problem when you're the only goal scorer in the side.

I've defended him in the past. I like him, I had huge admiration for the way he slogged away on his own, as the only senior striker in the club under Sabri, playing on his own up front. He put hard yards in which was hugely commendable but he was asked to do too much. It may not be his fault but his goals have dried up and it's gone on for over a calendar year now. Hughton gets interviewed after every game and says the same thing, we need to put away the chances we create. For me the problem is he spends too long outside the box as if he's still playing in Sabri's side. Even Steve Sutton said on Saturday how good it was seeing him in the box and poaching a goal, as if it was unusual to find him in that position.

(26-04-2021, 01:39 PM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 12:26 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 11:28 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 11:01 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: Why single out Grabban?

Because imo his inability to score goals in a team set up primarily as a defensive unit with him as the sole goal scorer (last season), was the most costly factor in the slide since Feb 2020. We had replacements for most other players (admittedly not that good) but we didn't for Grabban. He stopped scoring and we failed as a result. I maybe wouldn't have been of that opinion at the end of last season but seeing how he's continued to be poor for the entirety of this season has changed my view.

Sorry Pap I have to disagree.

Last season he scored 10 goals in the first half of the season ( featured in every game ).
In the second half he missed the Charlton game but still scored 10 goals. 
Exactly the same return despite the team misfunctioning so badly.

And this season? Compare his return with those of Murray & Taylor - compares favourably.
And how many goals have Knockaert, Lolley, Krozinovic, Garner, Yates contributed?

Has he been poor this season? Yes - but there are mitigating circumstances & he’s not alone. A truncated season due to injury & playing in a team that just hasn’t gelled at all.

The guy - imho - gets unmerciful stick with no real justification.

If I were he I’d be off - to somewhere I’m appreciated.

OK, I've just looked up his stats too and I can present an alternative view.

Since he scored at Reading on 22.01.20 he's played 43 league games for us and scored 11 goals. 1 goal every 4 games. 

Between the beginning of last season and that Reading game in January '20 he scored 16 goals in 28 games. 1 goal every 1.75 games.

His goals tally has fallen off a cliff, which is a problem when you're the only goal scorer in the side.

I've defended him in the past. I like him, I had huge admiration for the way he slogged away on his own, as the only senior striker in the club under Sabri, playing on his own up front. He put hard yards in which was hugely commendable but he was asked to do too much. It may not be his fault but his goals have dried up and it's gone on for over a calendar year now. Hughton gets interviewed after every game and says the same thing, we need to put away the chances we create. For me the problem is he spends too long outside the box as if he's still playing in Sabri's side. Even Steve Sutton said on Saturday how good it was seeing him in the box and poaching a goal, as if it was unusual to find him in that position.

Started to type a long detailed response - can’t be arsed.
Grabbs is clearly this seasons whipping boy.
Bet he’s secretly pleased that the CG has been closed to fans.

(25-04-2021, 05:53 PM)Floridared Wrote:

(25-04-2021, 12:38 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: Here is the form table from game 1 to game 18 - We were 22nd.

Here is the Form Table from game 19 to game 44 - We are 9th.

I would say that we have progressed under CH.

Hughton win percentage 31%
Sabri.  36.4%
Aitor  31.4%
Warburton 40.5%
Freedman 33.3%

All managed for a similar (ish) amount of games
Ch percentage with lamouchis squad less than sabri himself....just how far have we come?

(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.

Why single out Grabban?

(27-04-2021, 06:57 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.

Why single out Grabban?

I like Grabban and he's been a good signing looking at the bigger picture.

However surely we all agree that this season for whatever reason he has been poor, he'd probably admit it himself.

I dare say that if Grabban had converted just half of the glaring chances that he's fluffed this season then we would be sitting comfortably in the top half of the league and some folks wouldn't be on Hughton's back so much.

(27-04-2021, 07:06 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(27-04-2021, 06:57 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.

Why single out Grabban?

I like Grabban and he's been a good signing looking at the bigger picture.

However surely we all agree that this season for whatever reason he has been poor, he'd probably admit it himself.

I dare say that if Grabban had converted just half of the glaring chances that he's fluffed this season then we would be sitting comfortably in the top half of the league and some folks wouldn't be on Hughton's back so much.

Another one - geez!

Yes - he’s not been as good or as prolific as last season. Who has at NG2?

Just explain why Grabban is seemingly responsible for our plight ( it’s an 11 man team, 19 man match day squad the last time I checked ).

Why is he taking the flak & not Taylor, Murray ( was supposed to be our saviour as I recall ), Knockaert, Yates, Ameobi, Lolley, Krovinovic, Hughton, Modesto et al.

You couldn’t make up some of the guff that you spout.

(27-04-2021, 07:28 AM)Alf Garnett Wrote:

(27-04-2021, 07:06 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(27-04-2021, 06:57 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:52 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(26-04-2021, 10:38 AM)Paplane Wrote: I think we overachieved in the first half of last season when Sabri happened upon an effective formation and lifted the players with his man management. Then we underachieved in the 2nd half of last season when said effective formation was sussed, players ran out of form (yes, you Grabban), and fatigue & injuries kicked in and we had no viable 2nd string replacements. But overall last season our over-achievement was greater than our under-achievement, hence our 7th place finish. My view is that our natural level should be around the 6th to 12th mark.

Why single out Grabban?

I like Grabban and he's been a good signing looking at the bigger picture.

However surely we all agree that this season for whatever reason he has been poor, he'd probably admit it himself.

I dare say that if Grabban had converted just half of the glaring chances that he's fluffed this season then we would be sitting comfortably in the top half of the league and some folks wouldn't be on Hughton's back so much.

Another one - geez!

Yes - he’s not been as good or as prolific as last season. Who has at NG2?

Just explain why Grabban is seemingly responsible for our plight ( it’s an 11 man team, 19 man match day squad the last time I checked ).

Why is he taking the flak & not Taylor, Murray ( was supposed to be our saviour as I recall ), Knockaert, Yates, Ameobi, Lolley, Krovinovic, Hughton, Modesto et al.

You couldn’t make up some of the guff that you spout.

Blimey show some respect. He owns and pays for this forum and you are telling him to not spout S**t.

Sniffer you are my favourite poster and I have nothing but respect for you.