(24-08-2021, 09:08 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Its pretty obvious.
You started a thread on it this time last year “ why do Nottingham Forest keep failing”

Oddly I dont think gypsy curse was mentioned, as good as any other theory.

(24-08-2021, 09:08 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Its pretty obvious.
You started a thread on it this time last year “ why do Nottingham Forest keep failing”

Oddly I dont think gypsy curse was mentioned, as good as any other theory.

(24-08-2021, 02:47 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Im not hinting at 4 years at all, never said that once. We have been crap since 1997 when Harry Basset was manager is the last time I can remember consistent success, I have been there to watch every wretched season. Even in the glory years we were run with the commercial acumen of a WI teashop, so dont think Im not grateful that the current owners are trying to drag is out of that aspect.

The something deeper referred to in the article for me is the short termism that pervades football in every division and if you want to be philosophical in many aspects of modern life.
In our case that means, no long term plan, must get promotion every season if not sack the manger, rip it all up and start again and sell someone from the academy to pay for it.

I did put in my original response to the article I accept that this summer we have genuinely tried something different. Right now sorry to say that something different isnt working.

(24-08-2021, 08:22 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(24-08-2021, 08:01 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:

(23-08-2021, 10:15 PM)Reds73 Wrote: Just read this on FB and a lot of truth in this.

A really good read this….got me thinking…..I’ve taken some time following yesterday, to ponder it all…faith wobbled a bit I’ll not lie, it was not pleasant to see scuffles between some of our supporters, spitting at stewards, chants and booing directed against the team and staff….yes it is frustrating, bloody humiliating actually, to see the club, our club, rooted to the bottom of the league, it hurts, but on reflection, I have decided to hold any opinion on the manager until this window closes….
Let’s face it, sacking CH now would be catastrophic in many ways…yes some folk would get his head, and probably feel better about it, we may even attract a Cooper (who was sacked from Swansea and generally disliked by their fans for being negative…sound familiar?) or a Wilder, and that would lift the mood, however the fact remains that we would then incur significant cost and staff disruption as Reid, Trollope and the rest of the back room staff are paid up (CH alone had 13 months left on his current deal), a new team would be brought in, and we would have the whole age old thing of “it’s not his team” for the next 8 months, as we inevitably continue to lurch from one chaotic scenario to the next…
We all know how this story plays out…yet many seem to think that sacking the manager is the answer….I accept totally that results and CH’s record is not good, win % is the lowest since the Megson years, a run of 2 wins in 18 is unacceptable and less than convincing interviews with Colin Fray have been a difficult listen (not entirely sure why CH needed to say the word ‘moment’ extensively in yesterday’s interview, it did not sound great), however….
The club is hugely scarred from the idiotic transfer approach of 12 months ago, which saw 15 players brought into the club with no evident plan, all on significant salaries. The likes of Arter remain sat on circa £35k p/w and are not going anywhere anytime soon. The damage was also incurred before that particular period, with the likes of Jenkinson (£25k p/w) and Hefele (who granted has now gone finally) draining the balance sheet further. This repeated damage takes time to repair and comes with some degree of pain, it is unavoidable….and all this being played out away from the riches of the EPL and obviously Covid….
Before anyone shoots me down here, I am not saying that results are acceptable, nor am I saying having to watch Forest register no shots on target in 90 rather damp minutes at the bet365 yesterday was something that fills me with hope…it doesn’t….nor am I saying CH’s record as our manager is great, it isn’t…what I am trying to say is that the repeated damage caused by decisions by those who ultimately run the business, the ownership, CEO, Chairman and Board, whether it be Wray, Fawaz or the Greek, which includes the recruitment of managers and players, many whom have not been good enough to be associated with this football club (the sacking of SOD and appointment of McGleish still rates as one of the most self destructive decisions in recent times), have left the club in a mess. Behind the scenes, against a backdrop of 24 years of exile from the money pit that is the EPL, aside the repeated financial mismanagement and huge wastefulness of income generated by one of the most productive academies in the region (£60m generated over the last 15 years), supporters have been let down, however no one really talks about these stats, very few are laying Randells numbers on the table, nor roundly criticising his interviews which go on for a while but say little…like a good politician, he keeps his head down, and the club sacks another manager, whilst he keeps his highly paid job.
The default option is to sack CH, and defeat to Derby next week will see that I’m sure….whilst many will rejoice and enjoy the pantomime that has become the Forest managers job, it will not fix the fundamental issues that have seen us spend 24 years outside of the top league, it will not fix the underlying factor that the club has huge and fundamental structural issues that will need to be fixed before any manager is able to operate in a manner which allows them to perform their job at the optimum level….
Meanwhile, the clown and dinosaur comments will come, which dont really help anyone, but I guess they make people feel better….everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just hope that when CH walks out to the dug out at the CG in the week, people pay him some respect as the Nottingham Forest manager and give some deeper thought to why 21 managers in 13 years have not been able to solve this particular puzzle….the common denominator cannot be the manager, it runs deeper than that, far deeper…

I love it how he or she bottles it at the end with the far deeper comment followed by...

If it runs far deeper then tell us...

Gypsy curse?

(24-08-2021, 02:47 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Im not hinting at 4 years at all, never said that once. We have been crap since 1997 when Harry Basset was manager is the last time I can remember consistent success, I have been there to watch every wretched season. Even in the glory years we were run with the commercial acumen of a WI teashop, so dont think Im not grateful that the current owners are trying to drag is out of that aspect.

The something deeper referred to in the article for me is the short termism that pervades football in every division and if you want to be philosophical in many aspects of modern life.
In our case that means, no long term plan, must get promotion every season if not sack the manger, rip it all up and start again and sell someone from the academy to pay for it.

I did put in my original response to the article I accept that this summer we have genuinely tried something different. Right now sorry to say that something different isnt working.

(24-08-2021, 04:01 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(24-08-2021, 08:22 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(24-08-2021, 08:01 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:

(23-08-2021, 10:15 PM)Reds73 Wrote: Just read this on FB and a lot of truth in this.

A really good read this….got me thinking…..I’ve taken some time following yesterday, to ponder it all…faith wobbled a bit I’ll not lie, it was not pleasant to see scuffles between some of our supporters, spitting at stewards, chants and booing directed against the team and staff….yes it is frustrating, bloody humiliating actually, to see the club, our club, rooted to the bottom of the league, it hurts, but on reflection, I have decided to hold any opinion on the manager until this window closes….
Let’s face it, sacking CH now would be catastrophic in many ways…yes some folk would get his head, and probably feel better about it, we may even attract a Cooper (who was sacked from Swansea and generally disliked by their fans for being negative…sound familiar?) or a Wilder, and that would lift the mood, however the fact remains that we would then incur significant cost and staff disruption as Reid, Trollope and the rest of the back room staff are paid up (CH alone had 13 months left on his current deal), a new team would be brought in, and we would have the whole age old thing of “it’s not his team” for the next 8 months, as we inevitably continue to lurch from one chaotic scenario to the next…
We all know how this story plays out…yet many seem to think that sacking the manager is the answer….I accept totally that results and CH’s record is not good, win % is the lowest since the Megson years, a run of 2 wins in 18 is unacceptable and less than convincing interviews with Colin Fray have been a difficult listen (not entirely sure why CH needed to say the word ‘moment’ extensively in yesterday’s interview, it did not sound great), however….
The club is hugely scarred from the idiotic transfer approach of 12 months ago, which saw 15 players brought into the club with no evident plan, all on significant salaries. The likes of Arter remain sat on circa £35k p/w and are not going anywhere anytime soon. The damage was also incurred before that particular period, with the likes of Jenkinson (£25k p/w) and Hefele (who granted has now gone finally) draining the balance sheet further. This repeated damage takes time to repair and comes with some degree of pain, it is unavoidable….and all this being played out away from the riches of the EPL and obviously Covid….
Before anyone shoots me down here, I am not saying that results are acceptable, nor am I saying having to watch Forest register no shots on target in 90 rather damp minutes at the bet365 yesterday was something that fills me with hope…it doesn’t….nor am I saying CH’s record as our manager is great, it isn’t…what I am trying to say is that the repeated damage caused by decisions by those who ultimately run the business, the ownership, CEO, Chairman and Board, whether it be Wray, Fawaz or the Greek, which includes the recruitment of managers and players, many whom have not been good enough to be associated with this football club (the sacking of SOD and appointment of McGleish still rates as one of the most self destructive decisions in recent times), have left the club in a mess. Behind the scenes, against a backdrop of 24 years of exile from the money pit that is the EPL, aside the repeated financial mismanagement and huge wastefulness of income generated by one of the most productive academies in the region (£60m generated over the last 15 years), supporters have been let down, however no one really talks about these stats, very few are laying Randells numbers on the table, nor roundly criticising his interviews which go on for a while but say little…like a good politician, he keeps his head down, and the club sacks another manager, whilst he keeps his highly paid job.
The default option is to sack CH, and defeat to Derby next week will see that I’m sure….whilst many will rejoice and enjoy the pantomime that has become the Forest managers job, it will not fix the fundamental issues that have seen us spend 24 years outside of the top league, it will not fix the underlying factor that the club has huge and fundamental structural issues that will need to be fixed before any manager is able to operate in a manner which allows them to perform their job at the optimum level….
Meanwhile, the clown and dinosaur comments will come, which dont really help anyone, but I guess they make people feel better….everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just hope that when CH walks out to the dug out at the CG in the week, people pay him some respect as the Nottingham Forest manager and give some deeper thought to why 21 managers in 13 years have not been able to solve this particular puzzle….the common denominator cannot be the manager, it runs deeper than that, far deeper…

I love it how he or she bottles it at the end with the far deeper comment followed by...

If it runs far deeper then tell us...

Gypsy curse?

It is the Gypsy curse.

The article posted is excellent.  Removing Hughton will only start the countdown on the next manager's head.  

We tried the Hart, SoD, Warburton approach.  The Forest fans didn't have the patience for it.

If we recruit well and let Hughton see out his contract, he will get Forest going in the right direction.  Forest a couple of wins from mid-table.

Where's that striker?  The LB?  RB?  Powerful Winger?  A CM with more authority?

SA.

(24-08-2021, 04:31 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Hart, SOD, Warburton.
Would we have been worse off if we had stuck with any of the above 3 for a few years longer?

We got relegated under Harts replacements anyway so we know the answer to that one. SOD dunno but doubt it would be worse than Mcleish and Davies Mk2, but Forest fans didnt like SOD because his post match interviews were boring. Warburton played passing football but we all wanted him to Gerrit Forrad apparently, again he is doing Ok now.

(24-08-2021, 04:18 PM)selborne garibaldi Wrote:

(24-08-2021, 04:01 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(24-08-2021, 08:22 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(24-08-2021, 08:01 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:

(23-08-2021, 10:15 PM)Reds73 Wrote: Just read this on FB and a lot of truth in this.

A really good read this….got me thinking…..I’ve taken some time following yesterday, to ponder it all…faith wobbled a bit I’ll not lie, it was not pleasant to see scuffles between some of our supporters, spitting at stewards, chants and booing directed against the team and staff….yes it is frustrating, bloody humiliating actually, to see the club, our club, rooted to the bottom of the league, it hurts, but on reflection, I have decided to hold any opinion on the manager until this window closes….
Let’s face it, sacking CH now would be catastrophic in many ways…yes some folk would get his head, and probably feel better about it, we may even attract a Cooper (who was sacked from Swansea and generally disliked by their fans for being negative…sound familiar?) or a Wilder, and that would lift the mood, however the fact remains that we would then incur significant cost and staff disruption as Reid, Trollope and the rest of the back room staff are paid up (CH alone had 13 months left on his current deal), a new team would be brought in, and we would have the whole age old thing of “it’s not his team” for the next 8 months, as we inevitably continue to lurch from one chaotic scenario to the next…
We all know how this story plays out…yet many seem to think that sacking the manager is the answer….I accept totally that results and CH’s record is not good, win % is the lowest since the Megson years, a run of 2 wins in 18 is unacceptable and less than convincing interviews with Colin Fray have been a difficult listen (not entirely sure why CH needed to say the word ‘moment’ extensively in yesterday’s interview, it did not sound great), however….
The club is hugely scarred from the idiotic transfer approach of 12 months ago, which saw 15 players brought into the club with no evident plan, all on significant salaries. The likes of Arter remain sat on circa £35k p/w and are not going anywhere anytime soon. The damage was also incurred before that particular period, with the likes of Jenkinson (£25k p/w) and Hefele (who granted has now gone finally) draining the balance sheet further. This repeated damage takes time to repair and comes with some degree of pain, it is unavoidable….and all this being played out away from the riches of the EPL and obviously Covid….
Before anyone shoots me down here, I am not saying that results are acceptable, nor am I saying having to watch Forest register no shots on target in 90 rather damp minutes at the bet365 yesterday was something that fills me with hope…it doesn’t….nor am I saying CH’s record as our manager is great, it isn’t…what I am trying to say is that the repeated damage caused by decisions by those who ultimately run the business, the ownership, CEO, Chairman and Board, whether it be Wray, Fawaz or the Greek, which includes the recruitment of managers and players, many whom have not been good enough to be associated with this football club (the sacking of SOD and appointment of McGleish still rates as one of the most self destructive decisions in recent times), have left the club in a mess. Behind the scenes, against a backdrop of 24 years of exile from the money pit that is the EPL, aside the repeated financial mismanagement and huge wastefulness of income generated by one of the most productive academies in the region (£60m generated over the last 15 years), supporters have been let down, however no one really talks about these stats, very few are laying Randells numbers on the table, nor roundly criticising his interviews which go on for a while but say little…like a good politician, he keeps his head down, and the club sacks another manager, whilst he keeps his highly paid job.
The default option is to sack CH, and defeat to Derby next week will see that I’m sure….whilst many will rejoice and enjoy the pantomime that has become the Forest managers job, it will not fix the fundamental issues that have seen us spend 24 years outside of the top league, it will not fix the underlying factor that the club has huge and fundamental structural issues that will need to be fixed before any manager is able to operate in a manner which allows them to perform their job at the optimum level….
Meanwhile, the clown and dinosaur comments will come, which dont really help anyone, but I guess they make people feel better….everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just hope that when CH walks out to the dug out at the CG in the week, people pay him some respect as the Nottingham Forest manager and give some deeper thought to why 21 managers in 13 years have not been able to solve this particular puzzle….the common denominator cannot be the manager, it runs deeper than that, far deeper…

I love it how he or she bottles it at the end with the far deeper comment followed by...

If it runs far deeper then tell us...

Gypsy curse?

It is the Gypsy curse.

The article posted is excellent.  Removing Hughton will only start the countdown on the next manager's head.  

We tried the Hart, SoD, Warburton approach.  The Forest fans didn't have the patience for it.

If we recruit well and let Hughton see out his contract, he will get Forest going in the right direction.  Forest a couple of wins from mid-table.

Where's that striker?  The LB?  RB?  Powerful Winger?  A CM with more authority?

SA.

Fans turned against Hart approach? I don't think so. He recruited poorly in the summer after the board sold Prutton the previous January, and when he chose to sell Harewood.

SoD's football wasn't universally loved, and Gillett in particular got a lot of stick. But, it was effective and had a reasonable chance of giving us a playoff finish that year if old Fawaz hadn't fired him for McLeish. 

Warburton is harder. Perhaps if the board had allowed him to bring in John McGinn as he wanted, then things would have improved. Maybe, maybe not.