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RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - tugger2018 - 05-09-2021
I think the owners have always viewed this season as a mid table rebuild and now have put structures and people in place to move the club forward in the future which I feel was never going to have Chris Hughton in after this season ends.
Then another better planned, well scouted overhaul of the squad with a new manager will start properly in May once we have a few more high earners out of contract gone.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Strawberry Avenger - 05-09-2021
(05-09-2021, 12:03 PM)tugger2018 Wrote: I think the owners have always viewed this season as a mid table rebuild and now have put structures and people in place to move the club forward in the future which I feel was never going to have Chris Hughton in after this season ends.
Then another better planned, well scouted overhaul of the squad with a new manager will start properly in May once we have a few more high earners out of contract gone.
They have. And not a moment too soon as even the fans could see it's not working and even a 'ten year old' can spot that Forest have needed a 'Grabban replacement' for going on 3 years now. Fair play, they chowed down their pride and have started 'afresh.' (We've had a few fudged attempts way below budget required and now a make shift 'striker/winger.' And still depending on old legs. Legs that are now older than Murphy was. And he got pilloried despite also scoring the goals that kept Forest up that season.)
One day Christ (he did save Forest from relegation with little thanks..) Hughton will no longer be at this club. The fate of all managers including the late, great 'Oak.'
It would be better to take his 1 million severance pay for the last year of his contract and put it into a striker for the squad he has now (...) been allowed (a year later than advertised...) to build. That would be a more progressive path. How refreshing it would be to have a manager to see out his contract and building year upon year with each successive transfer window.
It takes patience. The likes of QPR are giving Warburton the patience we did not. We're finally going back to the plan we had at 'the start' of the owners tenure. How ironic. I think Dane and Warburton might have got on? Who knows.
All the evidence points to Hughton being able to build over time and half table should be easily within his grasp now he has ten of 'his' own players. He's quite flexible on formations, players in accordance to what recruitment has given him. Last year he played attritional football because that is what Sabri's squad was just about 'good' for and what recruitment had left him. A steaming pile of you know what on his football drive. And he had to 'coach' that lot into a pugilist mindset because they didn't have it in them to play with swagger to get out of it (or goals in the team to do so) with a January intervention that saved Forest's bacon. Dane has come in and cleared the drive way for Hughton to get his car off the drive now that it's not blocked with... I'd like to see where the Hughton car can go now it's no longer stuck on the drive.
These notions of some 'chosen one' progressive manager 'out there' somewhere with a 'magic wand' come at a price. Millions in severance pay. Disjointed squads. Changes in approaches. Changes in chemistry. Disruptive to progress. Forest can never get any continuity going. The ones that do have already passed Forest by and got promoted. (They didn't just have the 'right manager.')
We had a 'yes man' (allegedly') in Sabri. It collapsed. (For reasons it's best not to rehash on or off the pitch.). A new manager will want to sweep away the old and want his own men in. They'll always have their own mind and with that comes change. That is always going to dove tail awkwardly with what's gone on before as last season (for the 24 th season in a row) indelibly proved. I'm not adverse to change if it's not working. But sometimes you have to give things time. Changing things when a manager has got you 7-9th in the table hasn't proven successful for Forest. That was the time to back them. Not sack them. It's hubris driven.
If after a three contact, Hughton hasn't got Forest promoted and sit in the bottom half of the table. 'Thanks Chris, you gave it a shot.' And we move on.
It's a result based business though. And if by Christmas we're not at least mid-table and showing signs of progress? There'll be no escape for the 'princess' this time.
SA.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Derby My Arse - 07-09-2021
(04-09-2021, 11:29 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: No more excuses for Chris now he simply must start delivering results starting with Cardiff.
Six more games until the next international break if there is no improvement then I would imagine he'll be gone.
That seems fair. I hope CH makes it but if he doesn't a change at the next international break would make sense providing a new man was already lined up. Obviously it would give him 2 weeks to work with the squad plus a few weeks before the next transfer window opens.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - JollyLolly - 07-09-2021
DMA, this is the constant problem with Forest, if CH is replaced a new man in wanting different players when the next transfer windows open. I have been advocating for many years that the ethos and playing style of the club is set by the Director of Football who should incidentally be a long term appointment, players identified over a period of time and when ever the Coach changes makes NO difference to the standards and playing style we work to and have adopted.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Salvatore Matrecano - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 09:40 AM)JollyLolly Wrote: DMA, this is the constant problem with Forest, if CH is replaced a new man in wanting different players when the next transfer windows open. I have been advocating for many years that the ethos and playing style of the club is set by the Director of Football who should incidentally be a long term appointment, players identified over a period of time and when ever the Coach changes makes NO difference to the standards and playing style we work to and have adopted.
Absolutely agree JL. I do wonder if we tried to do this but picked the wrong model, ie coaches that play percentages, 4231, conservative approach. Is there truth in what someone mentioned yesterday that the academy was told to play this way? It used to be the way a few years back, not so sure now.
What is constantly killing us in particular is the mid season change of manager/head coach. We could have moved CH on in the summer, new backroom team ,new club philosophy therefore new manager too. Feels like we missed a trick. But now he have started the season with Hughton I see little sense in replacing him unless it looks really really serious in a few months time. But to go back to the original point you made if we implement change correctly there shouldnt be this “bring their own players in” nonsense.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - JollyLolly - 07-09-2021
SM, totally agree with your comments, however if we are to implement this strategy then we have to start some time.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Salvatore Matrecano - 07-09-2021
Thats the bit Im unashamedly on the fence about.
With hindsight we should have pulled the trigger back in June.
So where we are now do we:
Give CH the season regardless. Be honest we arent going up, he is out of contract at the end of this season and highly unlikely to get a new one. So is there a point in persisting?
Let CH steady the ship but bring in a new manager in January? Again what does that achieve?
Bring in some one now? But they inherit a new team under huge pressure, if they dont start to turn things around there will be inevitable calls for them to go after just a few months.
I genuinely dont know.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 07-09-2021
You really should be looking at getting those splinters removed from your ass SM :D
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - JollyLolly - 07-09-2021
SM, I think you have to review the situation as we proceed this season, either change at the end when CH contract is up or if there is a danger of relegation and needs must. Start the new strategy now by looking for the right type of coach that meets the agreed criteria planned by the club, conduct accessibility and due diligence on the man, it should all start now!
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Paplane - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 11:43 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Thats the bit Im unashamedly on the fence about.
With hindsight we should have pulled the trigger back in June.
So where we are now do we:
Give CH the season regardless. Be honest we arent going up, he is out of contract at the end of this season and highly unlikely to get a new one. So is there a point in persisting?
Let CH steady the ship but bring in a new manager in January? Again what does that achieve?
Bring in some one now? But they inherit a new team under huge pressure, if they dont start to turn things around there will be inevitable calls for them to go after just a few months.
I genuinely dont know.
I do. We let CH have a decent run of games with a stable defence (Wozza & Mckenna and a RB at RB and a LB who isnt Bong at LB). We get Lolley fit and back in the side and get Garner up to match fitness. We stick with Taylor and tell him he's our no1 striker. We then build the side around that lot with Zinc & Brennan. The rest of the spots are shared around the other squad members as they develop. Only then will we see what CH can do with the side. It will be his first chance since he came here to play an alternative formation, and to play with pace in the side. If it's still looking dire at Christmas then we give him the chop, if its looking average or better then we stick with him until the end of the season.
Basically we build a stable side under a manager who feels stable in his job.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - wassy04 - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 12:07 PM)Paplane Wrote:(07-09-2021, 11:43 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Thats the bit Im unashamedly on the fence about.
With hindsight we should have pulled the trigger back in June.
So where we are now do we:
Give CH the season regardless. Be honest we arent going up, he is out of contract at the end of this season and highly unlikely to get a new one. So is there a point in persisting?
Let CH steady the ship but bring in a new manager in January? Again what does that achieve?
Bring in some one now? But they inherit a new team under huge pressure, if they dont start to turn things around there will be inevitable calls for them to go after just a few months.
I genuinely dont know.
I do. We let CH have a decent run of games with a stable defence (Wozza & Mckenna and a RB at RB and a LB who isnt Bong at LB). We get Lolley fit and back in the side and get Garner up to match fitness. We stick with Taylor and tell him he's our no1 striker. We then build the side around that lot with Zinc & Brennan. The rest of the spots are shared around the other squad members as they develop. Only then will we see what CH can do with the side. It will be his first chance since he came here to play an alternative formation, and to play with pace in the side. If it's still looking dire at Christmas then we give him the chop, if its looking average or better then we stick with him until the end of the season.
Basically we build a stable side under a manager who feels stable in his job.
Yes this makes sense, hopefully we pull away a little from relegation and then we can reassess at christmas. If CH somehow does enough to earn a new deal then that implies we've had a more enjoyable season, if not he goes at the end and someone else can at least mould the squad a little more to his liking.
You change now, unless the new manager absolutely crushes it, you end up in a situation at the end of the season where the newer manager has a similar record to that of CH and is under pressure going into the summer, bad start and the cycle repeats.
RE: Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager - Strawberry Avenger - 07-09-2021
(07-09-2021, 11:43 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Thats the bit Im unashamedly on the fence about.
With hindsight we should have pulled the trigger back in June.
On Sabri?
Yes.
Had Hughton had 'that' pre-season and '14' of 'his' own players, no way Forest battle relegation last season or start this season bottom.
What's killed Forest the last 4 seasons? The sheer shocking timing of replacing managers along with not backing them and sticking with them.
The mid-season transitions completely torpedo the season. We went even better with Sabri. We pulled the trigger way too late. And the new manager is stuck with no pre-season and 14 journey man players who 'Don't run hard enough.'
SA.