(07-01-2024, 04:08 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 03:04 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 02:35 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 01:08 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: Steve was constantly demanding more and more players every window so he must shoulder some responsibility.

Some good players were recruited for this football club and were just ignored and cold shouldered.

That might be acceptable to you but for me and many others it's not.

Back to Shelvey his record speaks for itself over 200 games in the PL, 6 England caps.

Yeah 30 odd good players were recruited and he could only play 11. There's a lot of players that were unable to play.

Back to Shelvey, you're right his record speaks for itself. He was awful for Forest, repeatedly made careless mistakes and then refused to be on the bench when he got dropped. Indefensible.

Wassy you just want to blame recruitment for everything when there is clearly a much bigger picture to be painted.

I am the first to admit that recruitment was/is not perfect like at every club but why can't you admit that Cooper made some very odd decisions?

A lot of denial going on Sniff. Not just Wassy (I admire his unflinching defence of the side), but others (not just some who post on here) are so mesmerised by Cooper's reign that they just cant see what was happening in front of their eyes. I liked Cooper a lot but I can see that for half of last season and all of this season, results and decisions made were disasterous.

(07-01-2024, 08:22 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 05:41 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 05:03 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 04:08 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 03:04 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: Wassy you just want to blame recruitment for everything when there is clearly a much bigger picture to be painted.

I am the first to admit that recruitment was/is not perfect like at every club but why can't you admit that Cooper made some very odd decisions?

A lot of denial going on Sniff. Not just Wassy (I admire his unflinching defence of the side), but others (not just some who post on here) are so mesmerised by Cooper's reign that they just cant see what was happening in front of their eyes. I liked Cooper a lot but I can see that for half of last season and all of this season, results and decisions made were disasterous.

I happy to criticise Cooper, I've been consistent that I thought we never should've abandoned wingbacks (in the fact that's the only odd decision) and that MGW should've been playing centrally.

Results weren't disastrous though, we were probably the 19th best team in the league and finished higher than that so actually I'd say results were better than expected. This year we're probably about 15th best and that's about where we are.

The main thing I find irritating is ignoring the fact that all the other teams were also spending money and/or had been in the prem for years. 

Honestly, where do you think we should've finished last year/this year? And if you think it's higher than me, which teams are we finishing above and what makes us better than them? I think these are reasonable questions if you're gonna be critical.

I admired Cooper chamging tack last season at the beginning when we were getting thumped 4 and 5 every week. He did exactly what was required, he shut up shop and stopped the rot. But after that peruod we began to played with a defree of fluidity and the results came. Then injuries struck and we were back at square one. Nothing Cooper could have done about that. Id say that decent form, before the world cup was about the level the side was capable of. On the whole, staying in the divison was an excellent result. But this season, the club obviously set up to move on from that and it hasnt happened. We've added quality and yet we were playing at the same levels as last season with the same, hanging on tactics and relying on big Taiwo to do everything up front. The away form was consistently poor too. 

This season i reckon our true level should be about 12th or 13th. Anything below that is below par imo.

Obviously Sheff Utd, Luton, Burnley, Everton (with the points deduction). Who are the other teams we should according to you finish above?

(07-01-2024, 08:37 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 08:22 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 05:41 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 05:03 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 04:08 PM)Paplane Wrote: A lot of denial going on Sniff. Not just Wassy (I admire his unflinching defence of the side), but others (not just some who post on here) are so mesmerised by Cooper's reign that they just cant see what was happening in front of their eyes. I liked Cooper a lot but I can see that for half of last season and all of this season, results and decisions made were disasterous.

I happy to criticise Cooper, I've been consistent that I thought we never should've abandoned wingbacks (in the fact that's the only odd decision) and that MGW should've been playing centrally.

Results weren't disastrous though, we were probably the 19th best team in the league and finished higher than that so actually I'd say results were better than expected. This year we're probably about 15th best and that's about where we are.

The main thing I find irritating is ignoring the fact that all the other teams were also spending money and/or had been in the prem for years. 

Honestly, where do you think we should've finished last year/this year? And if you think it's higher than me, which teams are we finishing above and what makes us better than them? I think these are reasonable questions if you're gonna be critical.

I admired Cooper chamging tack last season at the beginning when we were getting thumped 4 and 5 every week. He did exactly what was required, he shut up shop and stopped the rot. But after that peruod we began to played with a defree of fluidity and the results came. Then injuries struck and we were back at square one. Nothing Cooper could have done about that. Id say that decent form, before the world cup was about the level the side was capable of. On the whole, staying in the divison was an excellent result. But this season, the club obviously set up to move on from that and it hasnt happened. We've added quality and yet we were playing at the same levels as last season with the same, hanging on tactics and relying on big Taiwo to do everything up front. The away form was consistently poor too. 

This season i reckon our true level should be about 12th or 13th. Anything below that is below par imo.

Obviously Sheff Utd, Luton, Burnley, Everton (with the points deduction). Who are the other teams we should according to you finish above?

Fulham have lost Mitrovic, Palace look like they're regressing, Bournemouth signed a few decent players and have pushed on. Brentford have lost Toney. Wolves have appointed a decent coach and pushed on. Again, decent coach at Everton and they've pushed on. Why shouldn't we have pushed on too?

(07-01-2024, 10:35 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 08:37 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 08:22 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 05:41 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 05:03 PM)wassy04 Wrote: I happy to criticise Cooper, I've been consistent that I thought we never should've abandoned wingbacks (in the fact that's the only odd decision) and that MGW should've been playing centrally.

Results weren't disastrous though, we were probably the 19th best team in the league and finished higher than that so actually I'd say results were better than expected. This year we're probably about 15th best and that's about where we are.

The main thing I find irritating is ignoring the fact that all the other teams were also spending money and/or had been in the prem for years. 

Honestly, where do you think we should've finished last year/this year? And if you think it's higher than me, which teams are we finishing above and what makes us better than them? I think these are reasonable questions if you're gonna be critical.

I admired Cooper chamging tack last season at the beginning when we were getting thumped 4 and 5 every week. He did exactly what was required, he shut up shop and stopped the rot. But after that peruod we began to played with a defree of fluidity and the results came. Then injuries struck and we were back at square one. Nothing Cooper could have done about that. Id say that decent form, before the world cup was about the level the side was capable of. On the whole, staying in the divison was an excellent result. But this season, the club obviously set up to move on from that and it hasnt happened. We've added quality and yet we were playing at the same levels as last season with the same, hanging on tactics and relying on big Taiwo to do everything up front. The away form was consistently poor too. 

This season i reckon our true level should be about 12th or 13th. Anything below that is below par imo.

Obviously Sheff Utd, Luton, Burnley, Everton (with the points deduction). Who are the other teams we should according to you finish above?

Fulham have lost Mitrovic, Palace look like they're regressing, Bournemouth signed a few decent players and have pushed on. Brentford have lost Toney. Wolves have appointed a decent coach and pushed on. Again, decent coach at Everton and they've pushed on. Why shouldn't we have pushed on too?

We've lost Taiwo for most of the year so far so not loads different from Fulham. This is my point, these teams have pushed on because they're better than us right now. You make it seem like it's easy to overtake them and it's our right to do so somehow. Also that if we don't then it's some kind of underachievement. All those teams have spent similar to us or already had better teams before that. 

I wouldn't expect us to be miles away from these teams but I wouldn't be expecting to finish above them either. If we did it'd be an excellent achievement.

Hate this attitude like we're the only team that exist or that is investing money and therefore should automatically do well. Have to earn it and if we don't it's not a massive failure, its just an acknowledgement that it's difficult.

(10-01-2024, 06:44 AM)Jacksbadhobbits Wrote: Recruitment has been scattergun and wasteful. There is now some debate that it may have resulted in us breaching premier league on sustainability. Nobody can argue that Shelvey was the worst example. When he arrived he got into the side straight away and was dreadful. That performance and attitude from it at Villa was unforgettable. Some of his behaviour off the pitch also sounds dreadful. I am glad he is no longer at the club. I agree with Wassy that our squad is a bottom is not really any better than the position  we are in. Our strongest 11 is weaker than last season. The goalkeeper positions are much weaker. We miss a fit Fellipe and Taiwo and are weaker for the loss of Brennan. Midfield options are stronger. Cooper did a brilliant job as Forest manager. If Nuno only does half as well i will be pleased.

(10-01-2024, 06:44 AM)Jacksbadhobbits Wrote: Recruitment has been scattergun and wasteful. There is now some debate that it may have resulted in us breaching premier league on sustainability. Nobody can argue that Shelvey was the worst example. When he arrived he got into the side straight away and was dreadful. That performance and attitude from it at Villa was unforgettable. Some of his behaviour off the pitch also sounds dreadful. I am glad he is no longer at the club. I agree with Wassy that our squad is a bottom is not really any better than the position  we are in. Our strongest 11 is weaker than last season. The goalkeeper positions are much weaker. We miss a fit Fellipe and Taiwo and are weaker for the loss of Brennan. Midfield options are stronger. Cooper did a brilliant job as Forest manager. If Nuno only does half as well i will be pleased.

(10-01-2024, 09:09 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:

(10-01-2024, 06:44 AM)Jacksbadhobbits Wrote: Recruitment has been scattergun and wasteful. There is now some debate that it may have resulted in us breaching premier league on sustainability. Nobody can argue that Shelvey was the worst example. When he arrived he got into the side straight away and was dreadful. That performance and attitude from it at Villa was unforgettable. Some of his behaviour off the pitch also sounds dreadful. I am glad he is no longer at the club. I agree with Wassy that our squad is a bottom is not really any better than the position  we are in. Our strongest 11 is weaker than last season. The goalkeeper positions are much weaker. We miss a fit Fellipe and Taiwo and are weaker for the loss of Brennan. Midfield options are stronger. Cooper did a brilliant job as Forest manager. If Nuno only does half as well i will be pleased.

But he is responsible for a huge amount of that what you have described above.

(10-01-2024, 09:32 AM)Jacksbadhobbits Wrote:

(10-01-2024, 09:09 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:

(10-01-2024, 06:44 AM)Jacksbadhobbits Wrote: Recruitment has been scattergun and wasteful. There is now some debate that it may have resulted in us breaching premier league on sustainability. Nobody can argue that Shelvey was the worst example. When he arrived he got into the side straight away and was dreadful. That performance and attitude from it at Villa was unforgettable. Some of his behaviour off the pitch also sounds dreadful. I am glad he is no longer at the club. I agree with Wassy that our squad is a bottom is not really any better than the position  we are in. Our strongest 11 is weaker than last season. The goalkeeper positions are much weaker. We miss a fit Fellipe and Taiwo and are weaker for the loss of Brennan. Midfield options are stronger. Cooper did a brilliant job as Forest manager. If Nuno only does half as well i will be pleased.

But he is responsible for a huge amount of that what you have described above.

Sadly that is true