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RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - HebdenRed - 02-03-2024
We did enough to get something out of that but f**k me can we stop blaming the ref for what happened afterwards.
He was crap today, and Momentum may have changed but we lost because we tried to be cute rather than lumping the ball down the pitch and taking the point.
We should feel aggrieved after that gut punch but the goal concession was self inflicted (again).
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - Tricky - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 10:58 PM)HebdenRed Wrote: We did enough to get something out of that but f**k me can we stop blaming the ref for what happened afterwards.
He was crap today, and Momentum may have changed but we lost because we tried to be cute rather than lumping the ball down the pitch and taking the point.
We should feel aggrieved after that gut punch but the goal concession was self inflicted (again).
The goal concession may have been self inflicted, but if the ref had awarded the drop kick back to us, as he shouldve done, then the ball doesnt go down to our end in the first place. So the ref is to blame
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - BomberBowyer - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 11:30 PM)Tricky Wrote:(02-03-2024, 10:58 PM)HebdenRed Wrote: We did enough to get something out of that but f**k me can we stop blaming the ref for what happened afterwards.
He was crap today, and Momentum may have changed but we lost because we tried to be cute rather than lumping the ball down the pitch and taking the point.
We should feel aggrieved after that gut punch but the goal concession was self inflicted (again).
The goal concession may have been self inflicted, but if the ref had awarded the drop kick back to us, as he shouldve done, then the ball doesnt go down to our end in the first place. So the ref is to blame
It is absolutely down to the ref. CHO touched the ball twice and was about to pass back to Danilo to likely cross in when the ref blew. Had we then had the correct decision of a drop ball to Forest we may have got another opportunity, corner who knows. What doesn’t happen though is possession surrendered freely to the keeper for Liverpool to send it up field and get a chance to win it.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - Trailer Park Tom - 03-03-2024
Some of the best individual performances I've seen from this team today particularly the back 5.
Goal conceded - same same.
Should have taken at least 1 of our chances.
The entire officiating team were dog shit again.
Big clubs are a circus, f**k off to a league where you can have super bowl half time shows and in-play adverts.
The way our fans and owner acted probably won't do us any favours with our charge.
Been angry for about 5 hours.
Can't wait for scouse Sue Smith and Stephan Warnock to do ref watch on Monday.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - wassy04 - 03-03-2024
(03-03-2024, 12:38 AM)Trailer Park Tom Wrote: Some of the best individual performances I've seen from this team today particularly the back 5.
Goal conceded - same same.
Should have taken at least 1 of our chances.
The entire officiating team were dog S**t again.
Big clubs are a circus, f**k off to a league where you can have super bowl half time shows and in-play adverts.
The way our fans and owner acted probably won't do us any favours with our charge.
Been angry for about 5 hours.
Can't wait for scouse Sue Smith and Stephan Warnock to do ref watch on Monday.
I believe Stephen Warnock was commentating on the stream I watched and was a significant step up on Shearer in midweek.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - Jacksbadhobbits - 03-03-2024
Koante cheated by feigning a head injury whilst defending the six yard box. He did this to slow down a Forest attack. He wouldn’t have expected Liverpool to get the ball back because we were still in possession of it when the ref blew up. If he did the cheating was even more culpable. How could he know Liverpool would get the ball back because the rules say the team in possession when the ref stops play keep it. If he did know you then have to ask how that is possible. I think we just have to put this down to referee incompetence(yet again) and bad luck.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - DR Forest - 03-03-2024
Agree
It was gamesmanship by Konate but I expect the intent was to prevent Forest from the chance of scoring the winner and for Liverpool to get a draw.
What happened afterwards was just a really really unfortunate bonus.
In law there is the principle of foreseeability, and consequence as a result of the action. The fact that they eventually scored with the last kick is not a direct consequence but my goodness, it’s certainly loading the dice against us.
When even Allen Shearer says we’ve been wronged twice in as many weeks you know there’s something wrong!
However the biggest referee error was VAR not awarding the penalty on Ono…. Wtf?!
The drop ball was incompetence, that was bias.
But after I’ve calmed down a bit, on reflection what annoys me the most is how we are shooting ourselves in the foot time and time again.
Not scoring chances; not clearing the ball when we had the chance. This is why we are not winning when we should. Change that and we can debate refereeing decisions from the safety of mid table.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - Salvatore Matrecano - 03-03-2024
Agree with the above and of course the outcome is down to us not taking chances and switching off at the crucial moment.
I can cope with frustration at our own team, that’s part of football. What I am struggling with is the realisation that the league is designed to be so unequal. It’s difficult enough playing the best teams in the world but add on we are playing against referees, VAR and a system that doesn’t want us to compete. I await our sanction for the fracas at the end.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - Jacksbadhobbits - 03-03-2024
PGMOL doing their bit to ensure we get a points deduction one way or another.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - Simon - 03-03-2024
so we are saying either a supposed elite referee doesn’t know the basic laws of the game - in which case he should be sanctioned or he does k ow the laws and deliberately decided to apply his own interpretation- for which he should also be sanctioned / investigated?
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - zicorice - 03-03-2024
Not left a ground so angry in a long time. Went straight home to keep myself out of trouble. To calm down....watched whole rerun to ensure a less emotional response. It helped....until 98th minute.
Positives
- Created chances and seemed dangerous throughout.
- Defended maturely and solidly for 98 minutes!!
- Despite persistent soft decisions going in the Scousers favour (we got 2 soft ones all game) we didn't let it kill us for 98 minutes. The build up of volume of these decisions impacts the flow and allows one team to gain momentum. But we kept going and breaking on them.
- keeper looked solid.
- Every player put in a real shift to keep a clean sheet for 98 minutes.
- Yates haters will be sad today, he was magnificent in a way that FIFA playing youngsters can never seem to understand. MOTM by a mile (actually bit harsh as all back 4 were excellent too)
Negatives
- No points again despite a decent performance.
- Individual errors again cost us the point.
- Marinakis and Co should've tried to do what I did and stay out of trouble.
- Young Elanga going through a bit of a dip in front of goal.
As for ref situation I'm going to try and be objective.
- Danilo rugby tackled Danns at a corner in same way Omobamidele was fouled, so that doesn't bother me too much.
- The foul on Sels was a shoulder charge, no elbow so a yellow.
- the 2 quick fouls by Gomez would have been a very soft sending off.
- Individually, you could argue a case for every soft foul he gave them and in isolation every "play on" when Forest players wanted a freekick. However, as a body of evidence it was having an effective on the game in the way a rugby ref can stop a team having possession Tierney persistently handed possession to Scousers or allowed them to keep it. Yet we still kept them at bay...until the 99th minute.
- The drop ball: Firstly having watched it back Konate was clattered so let's put the "faking an injury" rhetoric to bed. As a CB in last minute he would also be desperate to stay on pitch so once he realised he'd not been KOd he got up. If you've ever been whacked as he was either in football or in a combat sport you will know he wasn't faking it, why would he? He couldn't know ref would give them ball.
- Next I very slightly (and I mean only very very slightly) blame CHO as when ref blew whistle he should have kept the ball, picked it up or whatever. The cheating, savvy Scouser who took the ball and rolled it into the area clearly knew what they were doing.
- Once Konate got up and ref was going to resume game he had no clue who'd been in possession. Complete f@(k up. (At time I was screaming along with 1000s of others "it's our ball"). Unless he doesn't know the rules (very unlikely) or was desperate to help Scousers (also extremely unlikely in cold light of day) it was just sheer incompetence. His unconscious bias kicked in and a fear of Klopp (why was He spoken to and not booked earlier) and he took the option he did.
- Ultimately, we could have had possession and still conceded or we could have scored. That late on a c**k up like that grows in significance hugely.
I'm not saying it's OK and I'm not deliberately defending his decision. Refs are mostly now out of their depth.
However, the biggest crime was Taiwo tackling himself to give ball away. His clumsiness up the other end isn't as costly, but around our own box in 99th minute...just f@(king clear it. (And I love Taiwo, just not yesterday...)
We need to get used to sh1te refs (and Tierney IS sh1te) because the truth is, the reaction to this decision is symptomatic of why no-one wants to be a ref. Its been getting worse for 25 years with young refs dropping out at grass roots, so the "talent" pool is very shallow, hence crap refs.
To illustrate this, I thought the ref at Bournemouth was best league ref of season. Let things go for both teams and the only nasty foul of the game (which many of us missed on 1st viewing) she gave red for. Kluivert does four mostly soft fouls (picking up a booking for 1st or second which wasn't soft) but a proportion of fans slaughtered her. We had players also commit 4 fouls. The ref was consistent which is what you want.
There is a solution and it needs to start at grass roots. All that said, ref was crap and was partly culpable for our defeat.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Liverpool - zicorice - 03-03-2024
(03-03-2024, 10:59 AM)Simon Wrote: so we are saying either a supposed elite referee doesn’t know the basic laws of the game - in which case he should be sanctioned or he does k ow the laws and deliberately decided to apply his own interpretation- for which he should also be sanctioned / investigated?
Incompetence is how I saw it with a bit of help from Scousers being masters of dark arts and CHO a bit naive. It's in my really long post if you have some spare time today. :