(27-08-2018, 01:05 PM)NG3 Wrote:

(27-08-2018, 12:46 PM)PsychoStooge Wrote: Well from my POV he inherited a squad that was far too weak and full of coasters and had been for god knows how long, Karanka was the first manager that had the bollocks to actually do something about it which isn't easy to do in January. 

To be fair, that's a bit of a myth, MW moved out 10 last summer, 22 left the season before, 20 the one before that, & Pearce moved 6 the summer before that. In fact most managers, at most clubs have a clear out when they arrive, to make room for their signings. The only real difference this time was that most were done on the same day, with a big fuss being made about it on social media, so it caught people's attention & looked bigger than normal.

(27-08-2018, 12:46 PM)PsychoStooge Wrote:

(27-08-2018, 12:24 PM)Supa Billy Davies Wrote:

(27-08-2018, 11:19 AM)PsychoStooge Wrote: I think it's fair enough saying he needs to be top 6 this season but that would represent a manager getting a whole season though, that hasn't happened in a long time at Forest and my earlier point was more regarding fans who have clearly decided Karanka won't be successful here after 5 games of a new season and will decide the same of the next manager and so on.

It's not just the 5 games though is it? It's inheriting a club 14th last year, adding 10 players, and finishing 17th.

Let's be honest, last year was abysmal under AK, with the odd highlight season end with the pressure off. Fans were understanding and wanted to see him backed & given his team to start this campaign.

That's happened & we can't beat Bury, Wigan or Brum. With Brum a team who haven't gained 1pts away all season, nor scored 1 goal away all season until they play us.

It's poor, whichever way folk paint it AK's tenure here so far has been well below par & makes a bit of the mockery of the backing he's had too.

It's early days for this season yet, but AK seems to be chopping & changing hoping to hit a magic formula than having any real plan. Personally I'd have expected last year's highlights under AK - Cash & Lolley - to have been the first names on the teamsheet this year.

He signed 47 players at Boro, and I'm starting to wonder if his method is simply spend until you accidentally stumble across a combination which works. Either way I've not seen anything to warrent the hyped-up reputation which he had coming here. Personally I think he's yet to show any of the nouse which SOD, Davies, even Dougie did.

Well from my POV he inherited a squad that was far too weak and full of coasters and had been for god knows how long, Karanka was the first manager that had the bollocks to actually do something about it which isn't easy to do in January. 

I could name you a few managers who were hired at the back end of Championship seasons recently, didn't improve the league position when they took over and then went on to have successful seasons the next year. So what happened last season in terms of league position means very little to me. 

I'm not trying to paint it as anything other than it is, which is 5 games into a new season, not long enough for anyone to prove anything, which is also why I'm not raving about being unbeaten because it really doesn't mean much. 

But I'm not gonna argue with people who want him sacked, they're well entitled to that opinion, especially if they pay money and aren't happy. It's not surprising, as I said our fans have been like that for a while, I just don't think they'll ever see success while they want the manager sacked every half season.

(27-08-2018, 02:08 PM)Supa Billy Davies Wrote:

(27-08-2018, 12:46 PM)PsychoStooge Wrote:

(27-08-2018, 12:24 PM)Supa Billy Davies Wrote:

(27-08-2018, 11:19 AM)PsychoStooge Wrote: I think it's fair enough saying he needs to be top 6 this season but that would represent a manager getting a whole season though, that hasn't happened in a long time at Forest and my earlier point was more regarding fans who have clearly decided Karanka won't be successful here after 5 games of a new season and will decide the same of the next manager and so on.

It's not just the 5 games though is it? It's inheriting a club 14th last year, adding 10 players, and finishing 17th.

Let's be honest, last year was abysmal under AK, with the odd highlight season end with the pressure off. Fans were understanding and wanted to see him backed & given his team to start this campaign.

That's happened & we can't beat Bury, Wigan or Brum. With Brum a team who haven't gained 1pts away all season, nor scored 1 goal away all season until they play us.

It's poor, whichever way folk paint it AK's tenure here so far has been well below par & makes a bit of the mockery of the backing he's had too.

It's early days for this season yet, but AK seems to be chopping & changing hoping to hit a magic formula than having any real plan. Personally I'd have expected last year's highlights under AK - Cash & Lolley - to have been the first names on the teamsheet this year.

He signed 47 players at Boro, and I'm starting to wonder if his method is simply spend until you accidentally stumble across a combination which works. Either way I've not seen anything to warrent the hyped-up reputation which he had coming here. Personally I think he's yet to show any of the nouse which SOD, Davies, even Dougie did.

Well from my POV he inherited a squad that was far too weak and full of coasters and had been for god knows how long, Karanka was the first manager that had the bollocks to actually do something about it which isn't easy to do in January. 

I could name you a few managers who were hired at the back end of Championship seasons recently, didn't improve the league position when they took over and then went on to have successful seasons the next year. So what happened last season in terms of league position means very little to me. 

I'm not trying to paint it as anything other than it is, which is 5 games into a new season, not long enough for anyone to prove anything, which is also why I'm not raving about being unbeaten because it really doesn't mean much. 

But I'm not gonna argue with people who want him sacked, they're well entitled to that opinion, especially if they pay money and aren't happy. It's not surprising, as I said our fans have been like that for a while, I just don't think they'll ever see success while they want the manager sacked every half season.

You think I want him sacked? Where have I said that? I just think there's plenty we're doing wrong.

Those so called "coasters" had us higher in the league this time last year than where we are now. And as subsequent posts have pointed out, other managers have moved players on to.

And it's not 5 games, it's now 9 months - longer than most Forest managers get with 25m backing to boot.

(27-08-2018, 03:00 PM)PsychoStooge Wrote: I didn't say you wanted him sacked, you've inferred that from me saying 'people' I didn't mean you just because I was replying to your comment.

Fair enough if you think those players were heading in the right direction after some of the results around December January time, I don't though for various reasons. I think Figuiredo was an upgrade on Mills, Colback an upgrade on Vaughan, Dowell had about run out of steam so Tomlin was an upgrade there similar story with McKay and Lolley.

As I said, difficult to change a squad at any time, even more so when results have started going the wrong way and you're trying to drill your style.

Again as I said last season's results and table have little baring on this seasons for me. I'll leave it there, I feel I'll just be repeating myself if I carry on.

(27-08-2018, 04:31 PM)NG3 Wrote:

(27-08-2018, 02:08 PM)Supa Billy Davies Wrote: You think I want him sacked?

Just to nip this misunderstanding in the bud, I've read Alf for years & he'll discuss good & bad, warts & all, but he is from the stability camp & is someone who has constantly argued against knee-jerk hiring & firing. 

He's firmly of the attitude that we need to pick a manager, stick with him, give him the correct tools for the job, & enough time to see if they can deliver.