(19-08-2021, 01:03 PM)Widdow Wrote:

(19-08-2021, 12:59 PM)Username Wrote:

(19-08-2021, 07:39 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: Yes our fans are great aren't they?

EM please sack Warbs - Tick.
EM get Karanka out - Tick
EM Tell Sabri to f**k off - Tick
EM you must get rid of Vrentzos - Tick

Everything you the fans asked for - Tick.

But yes lets blame EM.

Why don't you get your flags and banners out and get yourself down the main stand car park and have your little protest?

Go on I dare you...

So stop deflecting.

I’ve never protested. It’s not my club. 

Going on some kind of Russian roulette saga between the fans and the owner is only going to end up with everyone losing. 

No deflection here.

Perhaps the owners should make better, more strategic appointments rather than the crap they have brought in.

(19-08-2021, 01:04 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: So Murphy is crap? Syrianos is crap, Brass is crap?

f**k me we really are in trouble.

(19-08-2021, 11:26 PM)Uwantlee Wrote:

(19-08-2021, 01:23 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: They're very good appointments.  As is Hughton.

But you've got people screaming after 3 close games.

I understand the frustration.  But hanging Hughton?  Might as well hang them all. 

They've had 3 months to bring in the players in a difficult market.

The owners clearly have a long term plan and have admitted mistakes.  Have the Forest 'some fans' got the stomach for patience?

We can give the new CEO time?  But not Hughton?  At least Mr. V got players in.  The new CEO is struggling to land targets.  He's going to learn real quick that the honeymoon at Forest doesn't last very long.  Not even if you're a Forest legend.

Forest fans.  There's nothing quite like getting what you want, eh?

SA.

If it were 3 close games no one would be concerned.

Let’s forget the fact that it’s 2 wins in 17.

Not to mention you could see the result happening in each of the 3 games this season. 

You could call the line up and set up in each of his 44 league games in charge.

Yes he has been sold short this summer but he has also sent the team out to defend and limit attack. He may not have the best squad in the world but his current tactic isn’t working... hasn’t been working for a long time not just this season.

Tough one to call though because I think what’s happening above CH isn’t helping at the moment.

(20-08-2021, 08:40 AM)Paplane Wrote: It'd be nice to see the guys face every now and then.

(20-08-2021, 10:17 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 08:40 AM)Paplane Wrote: It'd be nice to see the guys face every now and then.

The vast majority of clubs have totally anonymous owners who have very little input in the day to day running. They are simply there to pay the bills, mostly in the hope of one day striking it rich, getting to the PL so they can take a selfie with Pep Guardiola. EM is a bit of an outlier in that he knows how to run a football club himself.

(20-08-2021, 10:22 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 10:17 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 08:40 AM)Paplane Wrote: It'd be nice to see the guys face every now and then.

The vast majority of clubs have totally anonymous owners who have very little input in the day to day running. They are simply there to pay the bills, mostly in the hope of one day striking it rich, getting to the PL so they can take a selfie with Pep Guardiola. EM is a bit of an outlier in that he knows how to run a football club himself.

Yes but it'd be nice to see his face every now and then.

(20-08-2021, 08:40 AM)Paplane Wrote: It'd be nice to see the guys face every now and then.

(20-08-2021, 10:37 AM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 08:40 AM)Paplane Wrote: It'd be nice to see the guys face every now and then.

It's about the results.  But you have to get things right off the field.

And they are doing.

The last thing falling into place.  Is recruitment.  It's the one thing that they got wrong.  They tried to brute force it with a short term approach.  As noted by Randall.

Had they stuck with Warburton, Aitor, O'Neil. (AND IF) They stick with Hughton?  (Ironically, if they'd gone for Hughton in the 1st place and given him the money they gave to Aitor or Sabri then Forest would have been promoted by now.)

Any of them would have or will get there.  If you give them time. 

Last season's 'temper tantrum' came back to bite Forest.  They needed half a dozen quality signings.  Not the random confetti approach.

I'm ok with hindsight.  But I'm not payed thousands to get it right.  Even I know you need robust mid-20s players who have energy and can play a bit.  If you can't spend millions, you scour the lower leagues.  It's what Forest used to under Clough and Taylor and save the big money for one or two class players to give you that edge.

They key error was thinking a continental recruitment model with journey men players was going to work.  That didn't translate well from the Greek League to the Championship.

That impatience?  I think it comes from the top.  And I think it undermined probably every manager we've had so far to one degree or another.  And it comes down to trusting your managers for longer than 4 games.  Or half a season.  It puts the pressure on to hit the ground running and football in the Championship rarely works like that.  

Clough himself would have been fire under the current owners.

SA.

(20-08-2021, 10:53 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 10:37 AM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 08:40 AM)Paplane Wrote: It'd be nice to see the guys face every now and then.

It's about the results.  But you have to get things right off the field.

And they are doing.

The last thing falling into place.  Is recruitment.  It's the one thing that they got wrong.  They tried to brute force it with a short term approach.  As noted by Randall.

Had they stuck with Warburton, Aitor, O'Neil. (AND IF) They stick with Hughton?  (Ironically, if they'd gone for Hughton in the 1st place and given him the money they gave to Aitor or Sabri then Forest would have been promoted by now.)

Any of them would have or will get there.  If you give them time. 

Last season's 'temper tantrum' came back to bite Forest.  They needed half a dozen quality signings.  Not the random confetti approach.

I'm ok with hindsight.  But I'm not payed thousands to get it right.  Even I know you need robust mid-20s players who have energy and can play a bit.  If you can't spend millions, you scour the lower leagues.  It's what Forest used to under Clough and Taylor and save the big money for one or two class players to give you that edge.

They key error was thinking a continental recruitment model with journey men players was going to work.  That didn't translate well from the Greek League to the Championship.

That impatience?  I think it comes from the top.  And I think it undermined probably every manager we've had so far to one degree or another.  And it comes down to trusting your managers for longer than 4 games.  Or half a season.  It puts the pressure on to hit the ground running and football in the Championship rarely works like that.  

Clough himself would have been fire under the current owners.

SA.

I'm frustrated by this sudden insistence that we target certain players based on data and age. That's ok once it gets going but there has to be a plan in place short term to keep us competitive while it gets going. We've switched to this new model with gaping voids in the side. And to make it even more ridiculous, we've banished Arter, Jenkinson and Bong from the club even when they're still in contract with us! It's pathetic. I don't know who's responsibility it is in the club but eventually everything goes back to the owner who to be fair does know what it takes to run a football club.

I'd convinced myself earlier in the summer that even before he was officially announced DM was working for us behind the scenes, hand in glove with Vrentzos to effect a seamless transition. I've now changed my mind. I think Vrentroz buggered off at the end of the season and the club sat there rudderless until he arrived with no one pushing things along. He's been dropped into a job that is massively bigger than anything he will have experienced before at an extremely challenging time with the current finaincial crisis in football. it looks to me like he's sinking fast.

(20-08-2021, 11:17 AM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 10:53 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 10:37 AM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(20-08-2021, 08:40 AM)Paplane Wrote: It'd be nice to see the guys face every now and then.

It's about the results.  But you have to get things right off the field.

And they are doing.

The last thing falling into place.  Is recruitment.  It's the one thing that they got wrong.  They tried to brute force it with a short term approach.  As noted by Randall.

Had they stuck with Warburton, Aitor, O'Neil. (AND IF) They stick with Hughton?  (Ironically, if they'd gone for Hughton in the 1st place and given him the money they gave to Aitor or Sabri then Forest would have been promoted by now.)

Any of them would have or will get there.  If you give them time. 

Last season's 'temper tantrum' came back to bite Forest.  They needed half a dozen quality signings.  Not the random confetti approach.

I'm ok with hindsight.  But I'm not payed thousands to get it right.  Even I know you need robust mid-20s players who have energy and can play a bit.  If you can't spend millions, you scour the lower leagues.  It's what Forest used to under Clough and Taylor and save the big money for one or two class players to give you that edge.

They key error was thinking a continental recruitment model with journey men players was going to work.  That didn't translate well from the Greek League to the Championship.

That impatience?  I think it comes from the top.  And I think it undermined probably every manager we've had so far to one degree or another.  And it comes down to trusting your managers for longer than 4 games.  Or half a season.  It puts the pressure on to hit the ground running and football in the Championship rarely works like that.  

Clough himself would have been fire under the current owners.

SA.

I'm frustrated by this sudden insistence that we target certain players based on data and age. That's ok once it gets going but there has to be a plan in place short term to keep us competitive while it gets going. We've switched to this new model with gaping voids in the side. And to make it even more ridiculous, we've banished Arter, Jenkinson and Bong from the club even when they're still in contract with us! It's pathetic. I don't know who's responsibility it is in the club but eventually everything goes back to the owner who to be fair does know what it takes to run a football club.

I'd convinced myself earlier in the summer that even before he was officially announced DM was working for us behind the scenes, hand in glove with Vrentzos to effect a seamless transition. I've now changed my mind. I think Vrentroz buggered off at the end of the season and the club sat there rudderless until he arrived with no one pushing things along. He's been dropped into a job that is massively bigger than anything he will have experienced before at an extremely challenging time with the current finaincial crisis in football. it looks to me like he's sinking fast.

Completely agree with your 1st paragraph.  We've done a complete 180 handbrake turn with no short term transition.  And it's cost 9 points and the early potential momentum is gone.  That's on the new CEO.  His job is to bring in the players.

Arter is a CM.  Jenks is a RB.  And they are getting paid.  And they could have 'done a job.'  We'll never know if they could have turned the losses into draws.  But there's only so much you can do when your keeper makes key errors in each game.

And your 2nd?  You might not be so far wide of the mark...

I think Vrentroz could well be proving his point.  

The last time things were ominously quiet on signings like this, Mark Arthur was in power.

It may be that it's taking time because the targets are higher quality.  But I thought we were looking in different places to everyone else for more value?

So.  Where are they?  Still waiting.  It's costing Forest points.

With another week to go, the Rubicon is coming upon us fast.

SA.