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+--- Thread: Chasing Our Tail (/showthread.php?tid=484)
Chasing Our Tail - Alf - 13-04-2019
I have to ask myself, why are we back here talking about the manager yet AGAIN?
Hasn't years & years of changing manager after manager highlighted just how it's only 1 part of the puzzle, and how what's more important is what happens at the top level?
No manager is ever gonna be successful if we screw them over like we have the past umpteen years. As a club it's way more important that we operate correctly, and that isn't given a manager 1 window with significant backing to shape a side, pulling the plug, and throwing someone headlong into a promotion battle with a bunch of crap loans.
Is MON the right man or not? Well, who cares? Until the top brass stop filling the squad full of sub-standard dross like Dias, and ripping the rug from underneath managers halfway through a job it matters little.
For me our biggest weakness, which was on display today, is the weak mentality at the club. And that is never gonna go away until a manager has at least 1 full season to instill some proper backbone, and players can't slack off knowing that another change is around the corner anyway.
Whoever starts as manager next season, bar a genuine relegation fight (bottom 5 for significant amounts of time) simply has to get the full season.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Strawberry Avenger - 13-04-2019
Why aren't we talking about the under performing players, Alf?
SA.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Strawberry Avenger - 13-04-2019
(13-04-2019, 07:14 PM)Alf Wrote: I have to ask myself, why are we back here talking about the manager yet AGAIN?
Hasn't years & years of changing manager after manager highlighted just how it's only 1 part of the puzzle, and how what's more important is what happens at the top level?
No manager is ever gonna be successful if we screw them over like we have the past umpteen years. As a club it's way more important that we operate correctly, and that isn't given a manager 1 window with significant backing to shape a side, pulling the plug, and throwing someone headlong into a promotion battle with a bunch of crap loans.
Is MON the right man or not? Well, who cares? Until the top brass stop filling the squad full of sub-standard dross like Dias, and ripping the rug from underneath managers halfway through a job it matters little.
For me our biggest weakness, which was on display today, is the weak mentality at the club. And that is never gonna go away until a manager has at least 1 full season to instill some proper backbone, and players can't slack off knowing that another change is around the corner anyway.
Whoever starts as manager next season, bar a genuine relegation fight (bottom 5 for significant amounts of time) simply has to get the full season.
Amen to Alf.
Word for word.
SA.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - ozzyten10 - 13-04-2019
Spot on but I’m not sure O’Neil is endearing himself to anyone. It has been as bad as I can remember - possibly as bad as MacLeish. 44 players - and we can’t get a team with players in the right positions. Who will want the likes of guedioura, Soudani, Murphy etc...
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Strawberry Avenger - 13-04-2019
(13-04-2019, 08:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: Spot on but I’m not sure O’Neil is endearing himself to anyone. It has been as bad as I can remember - possibly as bad as MacLeish. 44 players - and we can’t get a team with players in the right positions. Who will want the likes of guedioura, Soudani, Murphy etc...
Good question.
Who will want Geddy. Soudani. Murphy. Os'. The three Portuguese, Darwikwa, Bonatini, most of the players we have out on loan, Watson, Ward...
These are players that haven't got Forest promoted. But they've soaked up the finances and wages.
44 players.
Yes.
But how many of them are top 6? A handful? (You can't carry half a team into the play offs. And that recruitment doesn't stop at MoN's door.)
Not enough. And that's the turkey MoN was sold on.
He's tried to find a team that works. But out of 44 players, most of them are mediocre, old, past it, lightweights, injuries or players that were never going to suit 'fit for purpose' (Championship style football.)
Forest fans always seem to turn on the manager (who gets barely half a season to work miracles, with a squad, a team he didn't bring in.)
We can't be in denial about this. Aitor didn't have this team top 6 and he was playing Car'.
I don't think Steve Bruce or Aitor had he stopped would have had this team top 6. It's bottled it three times under MoN. It couldn't do it under Aitor.
Funnily enough, he got out whilst he was 'ahead.' His football wasn't that great either. Usually collapsing just before an international break several times.
SA.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Username - 13-04-2019
We are here because it’s dreadful.
Lauding stability without the appropriate person in place is beyond idiotic.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Strawberry Avenger - 13-04-2019
MoN doesn't have to endear himself. He's the boss and if the Forest hierarchy have the courage of their convictions in appointing him then they need to stand by him through a massive 3 game losing run.
Nobody likes losing. But he's playing Appiah. He played Car'. He played Grabban. Which one of those pulled up trees today?
Yates scored. So that gives us some clue as to what's going to happen. And if MoN got the sack? The next manager will come in and repeat the same process MoN has undertaken. Just as this happens after every manager is sacked. We get half a season of 'soul searching.'
On chances missed, some of those last 3 games have been closer. But it's all about the win, of course.
Except, it's not. Not this time. It's about getting through to the end of the season and seeing who wants to play for Nottingham Forest. That's why all the players are (bar Bridcutt) being tried in match conditions. Who can man up. Who bottles it. Who listens. Who does. Who can. Who simply can't do it.
That's what's happening on the pitch. Those that can't? Will probably leave in the next couple of months.
SA.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Strawberry Avenger - 13-04-2019
(13-04-2019, 10:39 PM)Username Wrote: We are here because it’s dreadful.
Lauding stability without the appropriate person in place is beyond idiotic.
Who is the 'right' manager is a matter of opinion. The board appointed Mark, Aitor and Martin. They were the ones lauding stability when Mark was in charge. We can read their 'idiotic' open letter as proof.
Forest have been 'idiotic' for the best part of 20 years. And many fans have called for the manager's head while dreaming of stability. What does that sound like?
Last Summer's transfer recruitment was 'idiotic' in terms of recruitment for the top 6. How many players are top 6?
Forest are stable off the pitch. That's not 'idiotic.'
Forest are reasonably stable on the pitch. It's mid-table. Which is progress on the last three seasons of relegation flirtation. 'Idiotic' decisions took us there.
None of the teams in the mid-table are playing very sexy football except Swansea. Who aren't top 6 despite being in the Premier more recently.
Madness. Doing the same thing but expecting different results. Especially when it doesn't work. I guess that's 'idiotic.'
It was Mark's fault. Then it was Aitor's fault. Now it's Martin's fault.
SA.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Strawberry Avenger - 13-04-2019
We are here because it's been dreadful for most of the last 3-4 years.
And the last 20, if we're honest.
SA.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - wassy04 - 13-04-2019
(13-04-2019, 10:43 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: MoN doesn't have to endear himself. He's the boss and if the Forest hierarchy have the courage of their convictions in appointing him then they need to stand by him through a massive 3 game losing run.
Nobody likes losing. But he's playing Appiah. He played Car'. He played Grabban. Which one of those pulled up trees today?
Yates scored. So that gives us some clue as to what's going to happen. And if MoN got the sack? The next manager will come in and repeat the same process MoN has undertaken. Just as this happens after every manager is sacked. We get half a season of 'soul searching.'
On chances missed, some of those last 3 games have been closer. But it's all about the win, of course.
Except, it's not. Not this time. It's about getting through to the end of the season and seeing who wants to play for Nottingham Forest. That's why all the players are (bar Bridcutt) being tried in match conditions. Who can man up. Who bottles it. Who listens. Who does. Who can. Who simply can't do it.
That's what's happening on the pitch. Those that can't? Will probably leave in the next couple of months.
SA.
He played Carvalho for 15 mins, what did you expect?!
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Alf - 14-04-2019
(13-04-2019, 10:39 PM)Username Wrote: We are here because it’s dreadful.
Lauding stability without the appropriate person in place is beyond idiotic.
That's my point.
And the persons in question are those in boardrom positions, not the managerial one.
Idiotic is concentrating on the position which gets changed every year to result in the same failure.
RE: Chasing Our Tail - Alf - 14-04-2019
(13-04-2019, 10:37 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:(13-04-2019, 08:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: Spot on but I’m not sure O’Neil is endearing himself to anyone. It has been as bad as I can remember - possibly as bad as MacLeish. 44 players - and we can’t get a team with players in the right positions. Who will want the likes of guedioura, Soudani, Murphy etc...
Good question.
Who will want Geddy. Soudani. Murphy. Os'. The three Portuguese, Darwikwa, Bonatini, most of the players we have out on loan, Watson, Ward...
These are players that haven't got Forest promoted. But they've soaked up the finances and wages.
44 players.
Yes.
But how many of them are top 6? A handful? (You can't carry half a team into the play offs. And that recruitment doesn't stop at MoN's door.)
Not enough. And that's the turkey MoN was sold on.
He's tried to find a team that works. But out of 44 players, most of them are mediocre, old, past it, lightweights, injuries or players that were never going to suit 'fit for purpose' (Championship style football.)
Forest fans always seem to turn on the manager (who gets barely half a season to work miracles, with a squad, a team he didn't bring in.)
We can't be in denial about this. Aitor didn't have this team top 6 and he was playing Car'.
I don't think Steve Bruce or Aitor had he stopped would have had this team top 6. It's bottled it three times under MoN. It couldn't do it under Aitor.
Funnily enough, he got out whilst he was 'ahead.' His football wasn't that great either. Usually collapsing just before an international break several times.
SA.
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