Nottingham Forest - Cardiff City

[Strawberry Avenger]

Cardiff completely by passed midfield. It was more a time to percentage football and looked more like rugby- kicking for touch. There is an art to that type of football and they were very good at it when they bought the subs on…

To be fair to CH, it's not just his sides that struggle against that type of football. Every season I can remember we've been turned over by a big physical side who launch it into the box. That Pants performance against Millwall a few years ago will live with me for a long time. I cant remember the score, but I can remember 7' tall Pants being completely intimidated by a bunch of ruffions.

And also, Cardiff are a good side, we dont need to forget that. It may be direct football they play but they execute it very well. We wont be the only side to get turned over by their approach this season.

Agree Pap. It's difficult to defend against so you have to limit their time on the ball. We didn't do that. We actually gave them the ball unnecessarily by playing the long ball ourselves. A tactic we don't master at all. My root cause for the issues we have is that we are not able to push up and press efficiently as ONE team with real purpose and urgency. We try to press but we are not doing as one coordinated team and the defense are not pushing up and thus giving the opposition too much room between our lines. That to me is why we get overrun.  Getting a big target man won't fix that.

That is about a perfect summary in my opinion Gari of where we go wrong.
Do you think a new manager/better coaching can solve that with this team though?

Good to know that I'm not alone SM. 

What you need is intelligent players that both can and will run their socks off for the team. I believe we have that in the squad assuming the new players can perform. We maybe lack a bit of pace at CB to push the defense too high up the pitch but both McKenna and Worrall are good at reading the game so should be able to handle it. So with the right manager I believe this squad could be drilled into one well oiled pressing machine. It will take some time but then again Valerian Ismael didn't need much time at Barnsley and West Brom and neither did Bielsa at Leeds.

You aren't alone.  But.

Apples and oranges compared to Forest's squad.  And from their relative starting points.

Barnie have been recruiting to a high octane plan for quite a while.  They DID almost get relegated before last season's renaissance.  Not so hot at the moment.

Leeds starting from a higher base than Forest.

West Brom.  £££.

Forest never get going with a plan long enough to master anything.  Let alone something as basic as a press.  Sabri was faffing with the press when he was here.  He never quite got the hang on it with the tools he had.

Hughton.  Well.  If we had players with pace, who knows.  I thought we were pressing them somewhat 1st half.  But it's far from a well oiled machine because we're starting from scratch.  Again.

SA.

[GaribaldiRED]

To be fair to CH, it's not just his sides that struggle against that type of football. Every season I can remember we've been turned over by a big physical side who launch it into the box. That Pants performance against Millwall a few years ago will live with me for a long time. I cant remember the score, but I can remember 7' tall Pants being completely intimidated by a bunch of ruffions.

And also, Cardiff are a good side, we dont need to forget that. It may be direct football they play but they execute it very well. We wont be the only side to get turned over by their approach this season.

Agree Pap. It's difficult to defend against so you have to limit their time on the ball. We didn't do that. We actually gave them the ball unnecessarily by playing the long ball ourselves. A tactic we don't master at all. My root cause for the issues we have is that we are not able to push up and press efficiently as ONE team with real purpose and urgency. We try to press but we are not doing as one coordinated team and the defense are not pushing up and thus giving the opposition too much room between our lines. That to me is why we get overrun.  Getting a big target man won't fix that.

That is about a perfect summary in my opinion Gari of where we go wrong.
Do you think a new manager/better coaching can solve that with this team though?

Good to know that I'm not alone SM. 

What you need is intelligent players that both can and will run their socks off for the team. I believe we have that in the squad assuming the new players can perform. We maybe lack a bit of pace at CB to push the defense too high up the pitch but both McKenna and Worrall are good at reading the game so should be able to handle it. So with the right manager I believe this squad could be drilled into one well oiled pressing machine. It will take some time but then again Valerian Ismael didn't need much time at Barnsley and West Brom and neither did Bielsa at Leeds.

You aren't alone.  But.

Apples and oranges compared to Forest's squad.  And from their relative starting points.

Barnie have been recruiting to a high octane plan for quite a while.  They DID almost get relegated before last season's renaissance.  Not so hot at the moment.

Leeds starting from a higher base than Forest.

West Brom.  £££.

Forest never get going with a plan long enough to master anything.  Let alone something as basic as a press.  Sabri was faffing with the press when he was here.  He never quite got the hang on it with the tools he had.

Hughton.  Well.  If we had players with pace, who knows.  I thought we were pressing them somewhat 1st half.  But it's far from a well oiled machine because we're starting from scratch.  Again.

SA.

You make some very good points SA but I still believe we have squad that are capable of transforming. Maybe not to the Leeds level but still at a decent level. It's all about getting the right manager and then add the tools to get to the next level each transfer window.

[Username]

Cardiff completely by passed midfield. It was more a time to percentage football and looked more like rugby- kicking for touch. There is an art to that type of football and they were very good at it when they bought the subs on…

I’m not sure the stats back any of that up. 

They create aerial chances from dead ball situations and throw ins but how do you think they win those situations?

It wasn’t simply kick it long.

[ozzyten10]

They played rugby - played for throw ins and free kicks in the channels - the ref and our players fell for their traps and they cut off our passing lanes in the middle. Their second goal had some excellent football though.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Agree Pap. It's difficult to defend against so you have to limit their time on the ball. We didn't do that. We actually gave them the ball unnecessarily by playing the long ball ourselves. A tactic we don't master at all. My root cause for the issues we have is that we are not able to push up and press efficiently as ONE team with real purpose and urgency. We try to press but we are not doing as one coordinated team and the defense are not pushing up and thus giving the opposition too much room between our lines. That to me is why we get overrun.  Getting a big target man won't fix that.

That is about a perfect summary in my opinion Gari of where we go wrong.
Do you think a new manager/better coaching can solve that with this team though?

Good to know that I'm not alone SM. 

What you need is intelligent players that both can and will run their socks off for the team. I believe we have that in the squad assuming the new players can perform. We maybe lack a bit of pace at CB to push the defense too high up the pitch but both McKenna and Worrall are good at reading the game so should be able to handle it. So with the right manager I believe this squad could be drilled into one well oiled pressing machine. It will take some time but then again Valerian Ismael didn't need much time at Barnsley and West Brom and neither did Bielsa at Leeds.

You aren't alone.  But.

Apples and oranges compared to Forest's squad.  And from their relative starting points.

Barnie have been recruiting to a high octane plan for quite a while.  They DID almost get relegated before last season's renaissance.  Not so hot at the moment.

Leeds starting from a higher base than Forest.

West Brom.  £££.

Forest never get going with a plan long enough to master anything.  Let alone something as basic as a press.  Sabri was faffing with the press when he was here.  He never quite got the hang on it with the tools he had.

Hughton.  Well.  If we had players with pace, who knows.  I thought we were pressing them somewhat 1st half.  But it's far from a well oiled machine because we're starting from scratch.  Again.

SA.

You make some very good points SA but I still believe we have squad that are capable of transforming. Maybe not to the Leeds level but still at a decent level. It's all about getting the right manager and then add the tools to get to the next level each transfer window.

This new squad...we must see...for ourselves.  Only 1 game played they have.

Patience.  Discipline.  Time. 

Consistency.

Long have I followed Forest...their mind never on where they were at...always looking to the horizon.

SA.