So far, So Good?

[Strawberry Avenger]

We're higher than Fulham were this time last year?

SA.

[Kylos247]

I think we're had a steady start. Agree that so many changes it's unlikely that we'd blow every team away.
The full-backs are an obvious problem, we have the replacements so get them in the team.

I'd like to see Karanka change the plan if it's not working, but he just changes players. Sometimes 4231 isn't going to do it, there are other formations, it can't be that hard to train to have a plan b or even c!

However, we are unbeaten. Still think that there is better to come and plenty of time. COYR

Aye.  Not panic stations yet.  But one or two signs are creeping in.

Eg.  Slow starts.  Soft fullbacks.  Soft keeper.  Not scoring a lot.  Not providing the service to score a lot or playing to our striker's strengths.

Pluses.  Unbeaten.  Play to the final whistle.  Have players on the bench (and the quality) to change matches.

3-5-2?  Maybe two strikers would help?  Would allow Forest to try combinations of Car and Lewis, Soudani and Lewis, Bre' and Lewis etc.   Or 4-1-4-1?  (Colback on his own at DCM?) Other options to try?  The 351against Bury seemed to help.

SA.

Bang on, we do need to adapt in formations and we have the players to be flexible in a game. I'm a big fan of 352 or 343. We appear to be very predictable, which I felt was flaw with warbs. The passing is too often too slow and the opposition know where it's going.

[Alf]

The real disapointment for me is the defence, set peices n particular.

AK's come here with a reputation of being able to organize a defence, signed an entire new defence & set of defensive minded midfielders as well, and yet the very same basic errors which have plagued us for ages still remain.

However the side is very new, and no matter how many quality players we have here they are going to take time to gel.

Early days yet, I see both positives & negatives, but the one thing which needs sorting is our defensive lapses, and after signing so many players we should now already have the players here to sort that.

I'll give it another 5-8 games to settle and judge from there. If we're still as poor at set peices after then I'd be asking a few questions.

[Strawberry Avenger]

The real disapointment for me is the defence, set peices n particular.

AK's come here with a reputation of being able to organize a defence, signed an entire new defence & set of defensive minded midfielders as well, and yet the very same basic errors which have plagued us for ages still remain.

However the side is very new, and no matter how many quality players we have here they are going to take time to gel.

Early days yet, I see both positives & negatives, but the one thing which needs sorting is our defensive lapses, and after signing so many players we should now already have the players here to sort that.

I'll give it another 5-8 games to settle and judge from there. If we're still as poor at set peices after then I'd be asking a few questions.

:cool:

I think as the games settle past ten or more...the defensive line up will fall into place.  Karanka gives players a chance.  But he's brought in Bryam and Robinson...as well as Heff' for a reason.  Dawson too.

I see the fullbacks being replaced by Byram and Robinson.  Forest are a little 'soft' there.  Can't stop the cross.  Against Wigan?  They seemed to target the space behind Lolley and towards Os'.  Fox had three men on him.  They're obviously seeing something.  Pants.  Backed into.  Deliberate tactics.

Byram and Cash seemed to have an understanding at Bury.  He's going to be at RB...when fit.  Os' isn't tough enough at LB for me.  (Wins 16 balls so far, though...he's no scapegoat.  But I feel he'd be better pushed further forward.)  Do well in front of jack who is a LB and has played CH so he's clearly defensively minded.

I think Heff' will come in at some point.  That opens up the possibility of a back 3 with wingbacks.  I'll let Aitor figure out that option.

This leaves Lolley and Os' fighting it out on the LW.  As for Goncalves?  Toughen up.  Learn to track back.

As Byram, Jack and Heff' come into the team, Forest will toughen up at the back and offer more robustness and aggression.  It was painfully lacking against Wigan.  Out manned, bullied out of it until Watson came on in the 2nd half.  Geddy.  Targeted as he was in Reading.

SA.

---

Eg.

Pants..?

Byram, Heff', Fox, Robinson,

Watson, Colback.

Cash, Soudani, Os'

Grabban.

SA.

---

If you make that a 4-1-4-1, you could have Lolley or Dias alongside Os'.

Or you can have an extra striker eg. Ben' Bre' along Grabban...for a 4-1-3-2

Think we need to give the opposition more to think about.

That may mean sacrificing one of the two DCMs...

SA.

---

...in a 3-5-2?

Pants,

Hoff, Dawson, Fox?

Byram, Os' as wingbacks?

Cash, Colback, Dias,

Soudani, Grabban..? (or with Ben Bre'.)

SA.

[the jock]

new here , hello


Just want to that this "Takes time" blah blah is a total myth
Personalty chances in the dressing room and getting use to one another on personal levels i agree that's how it is in most working places.

On Footballing matter, these are professional footballers who get paid for a living to play football, if by any chance anyone suggests they can't perform that simple task because there new at a club needs their head looking at. Football is a simple game over complicated by idiots, yes you have heard it before but its true.

Any failure or achievement is down to desire application and hard work all generated from the manager , round pegs in round holes blah, If forest fail , and they will it will be down to 1. Poor team selection 2. Poor management 3. poor general play and application 4. and just outright 100% crap players like Darikwa/Osborn/BB/Cash to a degree and playing one up front with little or no creativity behind him  . If the manager persist with the foregone mentioned Forest will and i believe the signs are already rearing there ugly head , forest will ultimately fail again this season only making it feel worse because of the over Hyped pre season and the money they have spent


hahahahahahahahahaha Negative maybe? but many of you more reasonable people who live in this reality will agree with some of that


Nobbly Bobbly

Welcome to the forum nb . Great and V interesting first post to stir debate.

[wassy04]

new here , hello


Just want to that this "Takes time" blah blah is a total myth
Personalty chances in the dressing room and getting use to one another on personal levels i agree that's how it is in most working places.

On Footballing matter, these are professional footballers who get paid for a living to play football, if by any chance anyone suggests they can't perform that simple task because there new at a club needs their head looking at. Football is a simple game over complicated by idiots, yes you have heard it before but its true.

Any failure or achievement is down to desire application and hard work all generated from the manager , round pegs in round holes blah, If forest fail , and they will it will be down to 1. Poor team selection 2. Poor management 3. poor general play and application 4. and just outright 100% crap players like Darikwa/Osborn/BB/Cash to a degree and playing one up front with little or no creativity behind him  . If the manager persist with the foregone mentioned Forest will and i believe the signs are already rearing there ugly head , forest will ultimately fail again this season only making it feel worse because of the over Hyped pre season and the money they have spent


hahahahahahahahahaha Negative maybe? but many of you more reasonable people who live in this reality will agree with some of that


Nobbly Bobbly

Welcome to the forum, I completely disagree with this!

Firstly not suggesting that if Forest don't do well it's solely due to this or that you can't build a team in one window. However football is such a marginal game, there's so little difference between most teams that something like not knowing each other is easily enough to make a big difference. Also there's loads of examples of teams buying a whole new team and it taking time to work, Wolves fall under this bracket too.

Your argument about them being pros forgets that other teams also have professional players that may be at a slightly better level as they are a better trained unit. I'm better at my job that I started 6 months ago due to my improved relationship with my team, it's a perfectly reasonable thing.

There are some things most agree on (Osborn not playing LB mainly) and obviously Byram will replace Darikwa soon, probably this weekend. but otherwise its very early still. I'm still pretty confident, particularly after watching Wigan batter Stoke today.

[Sausage Roll]

Are you classicalrob?

[BadDog]

Are you classicalrob?

Looks like it to me.

Worked it out from the typing.

[Sausage Roll]

And the avatar which is the same as his Twitter one.

[woody]

Different Pseudonym, same old wind up Merchant, lol. Rob you need to move to a place where there's something to do other than wind us lot up from todays beach!!!

When a new manager comes along, if he hasnt got the same players doing something different or improved or worsened for that matter due to his new tactics/formations/coach he brings along with him, then something is not quite right. What I mean is that a new Managers impact is usually felt and seen from the word go. Rob in his jest is correct about them being proffessional players, they should be able to take new intructions from the word go and perfect them following a few more games. I dont subscribe to it taking 10 games plus friendlies. We should be clicking. The new guys have had by and large a full pre season, endless training sessions and practice games. Our best game was a few games ago and we havent reproduced since then which sort of flies in the face of the familiarisations makes us better notion. Where I would give the benefit of the doubt to Karanke is that he does tend to give each player a chance and therefore he is not yet selecting his best eleven.

Ive said this before but I will repeat because I believe its such a valid point. We've shown we can do it versus West Brom. This is an utterly unforgiving league and teams who have played us since are countering to stop us doing what we do best. We have to find a Plan B and possibly a couple of stella signings in positions where we are still lacking. Another consideration Id like to throw in. We have had record Season Card Sales , lots and lots of promotion talk and capacity expectant crowds. Whatever way you look at that, its going to bring pressure to bare on the players. Not everyone can take such pressure.

A good win with a few goals would do us the world of good as will Aitor finding his best first team.

[woody]

Bristol (13th), West Brom, (7th), Reading (23rd), Wigan (8th). Current positions of those we've played.

It may be early days but it may be reasonable to suggest out of those first four matches, only Reading will finish in the bottom half of the table?

Tough start?

[PsychoStanleyStone]

yes some will say he has only had 5 or 6 games

others will say the initial fractures and fault line goes back to around Oct 2016, he got an awesome draw, away at Arsenal who were top, scoring and generally winning and playing with confidence

however that creditable, awesome draw was sandwiched between 2 losses.

the 'not usually winning' has been evident right back to AK's PL season, ie 11 ish wins out of 55 plus games

the main problem being AK adamantly refuses to set up offensively or change anything hence he is really predictable and instills confidence in opponents imo

it is always going to 2 defensive midfielders and 1 striker, rain or shine, Bury or Barcelona

Middlesboro really wanted AK to succeed but he exasperated the life out of them, they would of settled for survival but they couldn't see AK's blinkered faulty strategy working out, he had a good squad there worth probably more than £60m

He made 47 plus signings with them. 24 so far with us.

Basically AK has managed back to back wins extremely rarely in his last 55 games, maybe twice or less

Personally and maybe unfairly I took quite a dislike to AK after the Hull cup game we crashed out of, I concluded then that he is cheque book, revolving door, harsh to say but I felt back then he would be 'shit on the academy' , he hasn't really got a record in developing youth.

The cracks run deeper, he doesn't really do the arm round the shoulder, if he feels let down according to I think Craig Hignett who was assistant to him in good times, he can alienate that player, besides this he has deep faith in an analytical strategy

Surely if a manager is analytical, uses all the stats available why doesn't he change tactics 3 5 2, 4 4 2, 4 5 1 whatever

I feel disappointed BB is going but like I said, I felt the writing on the wall was his 20 games here last season

I wondered about moral, team spirit, the band of brothers type bonds that can help win games, I prefer the smaller squad, I like youngsters to be introduced with good timing into the team though I am not opposed to loans out

Huge squad upheavel and a lot of loans in can be detrimental. also players coming from far and wide it can be difficult to for them to settle here

Ok Eric wasn't the best player, didn't fit the system, also BB he's not broken any records but these were players who loved playing here and helped others feel part of a family

I think AK was probably put under pressure to get into the play offs when he arrived in Jan so he couldn't focus on developing and learning about what he had here, hence the 10 signings

The 10 signings then was too many, too soon.

In hindsight I genuinely believe he could of made as few as 5 really good quality signings over the last 8 months

24 seems a bit ridiculous, seems we were going for it, shit or bust this season?

The problem in my head is probably more to do with 'modern' football though more a combination of a relatively dour persona manager, negative predictable tactics, revolving door, neglect of the academy

The main point is, the cracks were in plain view prior to AK arriving, the departure from Boro, the 47 signings, the alienating, the analytics, the record of 11 wins in the last 2 years.

This chat has been really about lack of results and why this trend is unlikely to improve.

For me I would be happy with entertainment, excitement and progress but maybe modern football isn't about any of this

Sorry I am a bit depressed, in fact I have been since the Hull cup game January. I want to love my club but this AK is making it so difficult for me.