Why Did Clough Break Up The Golden Generation Too Early

[zicorice]

Agree he broke the team up to soon.

Going from Francis & Birtles up front to Wallace & Fashanu in the blink of an eye was like going from driving a Ferrari and swapping it for a Robin Reliant.

Think they also got caught up in debt as a result of the new stand and had to sell players to recoup money.

Crowds declined rapidly all over the country, our average gate more or less halved between 1980 and 83.

We were still paying for the stand in the mid 80’s when we sold Davenport.

I think we had some bad luck as well. I thought Einer Aas was big Larry’s replacement before we bought Willie Young. Aas would’ve been a Forest legend if not for the career ending injury dominant in the air and pure class on the deck.

Some less popular but CRUCIAL points made there.  Well done, Heanor Red.

Francis and Birtles to Wallace and Fashanu (That's £3 million on those two?  A lot of money back then...)  And that sudden transition probably did for Forest.  But losing Woodcock seemed to start the rot for me.  (Went to Arsenal?  Even Viv Anderson went to Arsenal...)  And losing Withe.  Another Forest should have kept.  I seem to recall Forest seemed to go through this unsettled period of strikers through this 'transitionary' period.

And you're right.  Sign the wrong strikers and try to pay for a new stand and you have a recipe for trouble along with crowds declining.  (I seem to remember that being a topic on the news at the time, falling gates.)


And that Forest had their hands tied in debt and sold Davenport.

Eisner Aas.  I remember vaguely.  He got injured after a promising start and then I heard no more.


Forest had their luck until they no longer had it.  They made their luck and unmade their luck.

It took a long time of being in the relative wilderness before Forest (and maybe Clough) got back to their roots of finding talent.  That takes time.  Pearce.  Nigel.   Keane.

I suppose after success of so much success in a relative short space of time, the pressure to build upon that success and achieve was greater and that led to mistakes and a fracture in relationships until Forest 'faded' (compared to what they had been.)


SA.

I know it felt that way at the time, but not sure about a long time in wilderness. European Cup winners in 1980 then broke up side but:  Third in the league again in 1983, UEFA Cup semi (should have been winners cheating B@$****s) in 1984. Granted FA Cup was a total loss until 88 (and 3rd in league again).

The true wilderness was caused by Scousers getting everyone a ban from Europe from 1985. Without that, who knows?

[Strawberry Avenger]

Agree he broke the team up to soon.

Going from Francis & Birtles up front to Wallace & Fashanu in the blink of an eye was like going from driving a Ferrari and swapping it for a Robin Reliant.

Think they also got caught up in debt as a result of the new stand and had to sell players to recoup money.

Crowds declined rapidly all over the country, our average gate more or less halved between 1980 and 83.

We were still paying for the stand in the mid 80’s when we sold Davenport.

I think we had some bad luck as well. I thought Einer Aas was big Larry’s replacement before we bought Willie Young. Aas would’ve been a Forest legend if not for the career ending injury dominant in the air and pure class on the deck.

Some less popular but CRUCIAL points made there.  Well done, Heanor Red.

Francis and Birtles to Wallace and Fashanu (That's £3 million on those two?  A lot of money back then...)  And that sudden transition probably did for Forest.  But losing Woodcock seemed to start the rot for me.  (Went to Arsenal?  Even Viv Anderson went to Arsenal...)  And losing Withe.  Another Forest should have kept.  I seem to recall Forest seemed to go through this unsettled period of strikers through this 'transitionary' period.

And you're right.  Sign the wrong strikers and try to pay for a new stand and you have a recipe for trouble along with crowds declining.  (I seem to remember that being a topic on the news at the time, falling gates.)


And that Forest had their hands tied in debt and sold Davenport.

Eisner Aas.  I remember vaguely.  He got injured after a promising start and then I heard no more.


Forest had their luck until they no longer had it.  They made their luck and unmade their luck.

It took a long time of being in the relative wilderness before Forest (and maybe Clough) got back to their roots of finding talent.  That takes time.  Pearce.  Nigel.   Keane.

I suppose after success of so much success in a relative short space of time, the pressure to build upon that success and achieve was greater and that led to mistakes and a fracture in relationships until Forest 'faded' (compared to what they had been.)


SA.

I know it felt that way at the time, but not sure about a long time in wilderness. European Cup winners in 1980 then broke up side but:  Third in the league again in 1983, UEFA Cup semi (should have been winners cheating B@$****s) in 1984. Granted FA Cup was a total loss until 88 (and 3rd in league again).

The true wilderness was caused by Scousers getting everyone a ban from Europe from 1985. Without that, who knows?

But compared to the high standards set it was a relative 'fading.'  It's just how it feels.  And I'm sure the pressure was on.  Maybe Clough and Taylor 'felt' that during the 'break up' of the side and their footballing marriage.  Perhaps by Clough's own high standards.  3rd in 1983 is no disaster, though.  We'd take that now.  The Agony and ecstasy of those years.  When you hit the heights  of 1 what is 3rd?  Consolidation?  A word repugnant in the Clough lexicon.

And...I remember the Forest fans (a day that will live long in my memory...) chanting 'Pull your finger out, Clough...' when Forest were sitting 10th in the league after an indifferent start.  There's gratitude for you.  I remember Clough climbing onto the fence rail and swinging for a fan or the fans.

As you say, the True Wilderness was caused by the fans from one team's fans only....the same fans that bleat on about that other catastrophic event they 'aren't' to blame for.  Forest were robbed of European football.

Aye...that UEFA Cup...

3rd in 1988.  Hmm. 

SA.

[zicorice]

Agree he broke the team up to soon.

Going from Francis & Birtles up front to Wallace & Fashanu in the blink of an eye was like going from driving a Ferrari and swapping it for a Robin Reliant.

Think they also got caught up in debt as a result of the new stand and had to sell players to recoup money.

Crowds declined rapidly all over the country, our average gate more or less halved between 1980 and 83.

We were still paying for the stand in the mid 80’s when we sold Davenport.

I think we had some bad luck as well. I thought Einer Aas was big Larry’s replacement before we bought Willie Young. Aas would’ve been a Forest legend if not for the career ending injury dominant in the air and pure class on the deck.

Some less popular but CRUCIAL points made there.  Well done, Heanor Red.

Francis and Birtles to Wallace and Fashanu (That's £3 million on those two?  A lot of money back then...)  And that sudden transition probably did for Forest.  But losing Woodcock seemed to start the rot for me.  (Went to Arsenal?  Even Viv Anderson went to Arsenal...)  And losing Withe.  Another Forest should have kept.  I seem to recall Forest seemed to go through this unsettled period of strikers through this 'transitionary' period.

And you're right.  Sign the wrong strikers and try to pay for a new stand and you have a recipe for trouble along with crowds declining.  (I seem to remember that being a topic on the news at the time, falling gates.)


And that Forest had their hands tied in debt and sold Davenport.

Eisner Aas.  I remember vaguely.  He got injured after a promising start and then I heard no more.


Forest had their luck until they no longer had it.  They made their luck and unmade their luck.

It took a long time of being in the relative wilderness before Forest (and maybe Clough) got back to their roots of finding talent.  That takes time.  Pearce.  Nigel.   Keane.

I suppose after success of so much success in a relative short space of time, the pressure to build upon that success and achieve was greater and that led to mistakes and a fracture in relationships until Forest 'faded' (compared to what they had been.)


SA.

I know it felt that way at the time, but not sure about a long time in wilderness. European Cup winners in 1980 then broke up side but:  Third in the league again in 1983, UEFA Cup semi (should have been winners cheating B@$****s) in 1984. Granted FA Cup was a total loss until 88 (and 3rd in league again).

The true wilderness was caused by Scousers getting everyone a ban from Europe from 1985. Without that, who knows?

But compared to the high standards set it was a relative 'fading.'  It's just how it feels.  And I'm sure the pressure was on.  Maybe Clough and Taylor 'felt' that during the 'break up' of the side and their footballing marriage.  Perhaps by Clough's own high standards.  3rd in 1983 is no disaster, though.  We'd take that now.  The Agony and ecstasy of those years.  When you hit the heights  of 1 what is 3rd?  Consolidation?  A word repugnant in the Clough lexicon.

And...I remember the Forest fans (a day that will live long in my memory...) chanting 'Pull your finger out, Clough...' when Forest were sitting 10th in the league after an indifferent start.  There's gratitude for you.  I remember Clough climbing onto the fence rail and swinging for a fan or the fans.

As you say, the True Wilderness was caused by the fans from one team's fans only....the same fans that bleat on about that other catastrophic event they 'aren't' to blame for.  Forest were robbed of European football.

Aye...that UEFA Cup...

3rd in 1988.  Hmm. 

SA.

All fair points and I agree with you, I suppose being of a certain age, the Champions of Europe days are for me memories from school, TV etc...I just assumed thats what happened all the time. Those teams through the 80s were what I grew up on. The 83 team were top scorers in the division. The 88 side only lost twice at home all season. The 89 side were the best of the bunch as discussed before and probably could have won the title but for cup commitments and Scousers generally. (Arsenal were better at grinding out results than we were when fixture congestion took its toll and at least stopped Scousers with last kick of the season).

How we took it for granted though. I remember a late season mid week catch up game where we beat Oxford 5-3 in front of a pitiful crowd. Then we played to  twice in 3 days right at the end of the season.

Whilst Cloughie didn't win the league again, we were certainly challenging into March a couple of times. We would all take that now and any manager (hopefully Sabri) would be hailed a genius if they took us their. Cloughie took us their numerous times. Top 3 on 5 separate occasions I think it was. 

Heady and happy days...