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(15-12-2018, 03:46 PM)the jock Wrote: (14-12-2018, 12:24 PM)Kylos247 Wrote: That's it we don't see what goes on behind closed doors. And I can't remember the game but goncalves was at fault for not tracking back, and the opposition scored. Which could relate to his efforts in training hence the lack of game time.
Personally I'd send them both back not good enough at present, certainly have potential.
That was against wba. Gets another chance and gets sent off. I don't think you get too many chances with karanka.
Yes thank you it was I remember. But to be fair to the lad he was looking decent until he got sent off, and it was a harsh decision.
Now cash has found his form that he had at the start of the season, I think it's likely we have seen the last goncalves.
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(15-12-2018, 06:14 PM)Username Wrote: A luxury player with the joint highest assists in the division, and that’s despite the fact that he’s still acclimatising to the Country and the league.
Laughable.
Yes he's improved a lot since arriving, will only get better. Hes always a yard in front, great footballing brain. The champ now is getting ridiculous in terms of money spent. When u look at the likes of Burke Britt I'd say we have invested well, considering their lack of input.
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15-12-2018, 09:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 15-12-2018, 09:38 PM by Maltared.)
(15-12-2018, 09:09 PM)Kylos247 Wrote: (15-12-2018, 06:14 PM)Username Wrote: A luxury player with the joint highest assists in the division, and that’s despite the fact that he’s still acclimatising to the Country and the league.
Laughable.
Yes he's improved a lot since arriving, will only get better. Hes always a yard in front, great footballing brain. The champ now is getting ridiculous in terms of money spent. When u look at the likes of Burke Britt I'd say we have invested well, considering their lack of input. To continue with username. ...the thing that he has to adapt to a new country etc etc...for me that is all a bit bullshit...I came from Malta at the age of 35...nd settled to life in Scotland straight away...nd my family wasnt even with me...I m sure that Carvalio nd the rest of the portugese are more pampered then I was...so the foreigners that use that excuse, is to justify their lack of willingness to integrate...in regard the assists thing..its all statistics...same as having 65% possession nd end up loosing a game...so if a defender doesnt provide assists does that mean that he is not playing well?... If Carvalio doesnt provides assists ( keep in mind that from the front three or four he is the one that played the most) then who should?...not Panti or Dawson, thats for sure...
Have nothing against Carvalio or any of the portugese but NO player in the Championship is worth more then 6 million..if a player is worth more than that he should be playing in the Premiership nd not in the second tear...
With these prices we are shooting ourselves in the foot...we r setting the wrong standards nd price tags..much better nd complete players are changing clubs in european top leagues ...for much less...that is what i mean when I criticise the signings of the portugese players...The Fig was valued right (2.5million)...nd we tried before buying...
How much did we pay for Antonio? ... how much did we sell him?... can u imagine what he will be doing in this team ?...
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(15-12-2018, 06:14 PM)Username Wrote: A luxury player with the joint highest assists in the division, and that’s despite the fact that he’s still acclimatising to the Country and the league.
Laughable.
I think we are all aware that MaltaRed hates the 3 Portuguese players. That's their view, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All I would say is most people who appreciate football can appreciate Carv. Goncalves has shown glimpses but not consistent enough (YET) and we still have more than half a season to go. Dias is very good at covering ground and defensive work - but his attacking side has been lacking.
Our weakness in my view are :
Cash/Dias - both are not good enough for what we need. We need another Lolley for the other wing.
Centre backs - we need better ones - upgrades as opposed to replacements.
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I don’t agree with you on Cash i’m afraid, he has five goals already this season (from only 22 appearances) and has played less than 50 competitive games at this level.
His pass completion stats aren’t great but you’ll notice that they are a lot worse when he comes on as a substitute as opposed to playing so clearly has trouble settling into the pace of the game compared to when he starts.
He’s scored key goals for us against Wigan and Villa without which we would probably be two points worse off, and without his goals in the Cup we wouldn’t have got past the first round.
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Not sure how you define a luxury player but in my book that is a player who is only contributing in attack. If we use my definition then Carv is definitely not a luxury player. Carv is working very hard for the team both in attack and in defense. He has certainly surprised me with his willingness to contribute defensively (as has Dias). Carv has clearly a lot of ability combined with a quick footballing brain which is a deadly combination and I believe we are seeing more and more of that coming through as he's coming to terms with the pace of the Championship. Please keep in mind that this is a player who is only 21 and has just come to the Championship from a foreign country where he has more or less only played U21 level football. I have to say that I'm quite impressed that he has been able to play in almost all league games since the start of the season and he has been gradually getting better and better. And I don't agree that be had a bad game against Preston. He did have one or two missed passes but he still had a good enough game. There is still a long way to go for Carv but I have no doubt that he will be a very important player for Forest in years to come.
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We paid for potential . Carvalho at times has oozed class. Class in midfield that we haven't seen for a very long time
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(15-12-2018, 09:34 PM)Maltared Wrote: (15-12-2018, 09:09 PM)Kylos247 Wrote: (15-12-2018, 06:14 PM)Username Wrote: A luxury player with the joint highest assists in the division, and that’s despite the fact that he’s still acclimatising to the Country and the league.
Laughable.
Yes he's improved a lot since arriving, will only get better. Hes always a yard in front, great footballing brain. The champ now is getting ridiculous in terms of money spent. When u look at the likes of Burke Britt I'd say we have invested well, considering their lack of input. To continue with username. ...the thing that he has to adapt to a new country etc etc...for me that is all a bit bullshit...I came from Malta at the age of 35...nd settled to life in Scotland straight away...nd my family wasnt even with me...I m sure that Carvalio nd the rest of the portugese are more pampered then I was...so the foreigners that use that excuse, is to justify their lack of willingness to integrate...in regard the assists thing..its all statistics...same as having 65% possession nd end up loosing a game...so if a defender doesnt provide assists does that mean that he is not playing well?... If Carvalio doesnt provides assists ( keep in mind that from the front three or four he is the one that played the most) then who should?...not Panti or Dawson, thats for sure...
Have nothing against Carvalio or any of the portugese but NO player in the Championship is worth more then 6 million..if a player is worth more than that he should be playing in the Premiership nd not in the second tear...
With these prices we are shooting ourselves in the foot...we r setting the wrong standards nd price tags..much better nd complete players are changing clubs in european top leagues ...for much less...that is what i mean when I criticise the signings of the portugese players...The Fig was valued right (2.5million)...nd we tried before buying...
How much did we pay for Antonio? ... how much did we sell him?... can u imagine what he will be doing in this team ?... Not everyone is the same though are they?? He might be really close.to his family missing them? Different culture. So I disagree, i think everyone will adabt differently on their circumstances.
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(15-12-2018, 05:32 PM)Maltared Wrote: (15-12-2018, 03:30 PM)zicorice Wrote: Carvalho is a class act. I love watching him play. He will be worth double what we paid in a year or two. If he was the complete package already we would never have been able to sign him, let alone for 15mill. When ever we get the ball I take a quick look at where he is and invariably he is on the move making himself available, in my head I just think "give him the ball" which we often don't of course with other options around too. He is a proper player and we should enjoy him whilst we can. Forget what he doesnt do, that will follow with experience, just admire what they guy can and does do for us.
Double what we paid in a year or two !!!... we will be lucky to get half of what we paid...he is a luxury player that eventually will have to be sacrificed...for tge so called moments of brilliance he spends alot of time ineffective nd contributing nothing to our play...how many times he had the chance to shoot from outside the box. .nd he doesnt...dont know how many times you have watched us this season...I watched every game nd tell you what...if he was on loan like the other two he will not get half the game time he us getting...we HAVE to play him nd hope he comes good...the less he plays the more his value drops....
You must be watching a different game to me Malta. I love watching him play, he's a talent we haven't seen at Forest for many a year and he will only get better. The championship is a hard league and I should imagine that takes some getting used to.
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(16-12-2018, 04:48 AM)JWJW Wrote: (15-12-2018, 06:14 PM)Username Wrote: A luxury player with the joint highest assists in the division, and that’s despite the fact that he’s still acclimatising to the Country and the league.
Laughable.
I think we are all aware that MaltaRed hates the 3 Portuguese players. That's their view, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. All I would say is most people who appreciate football can appreciate Carv. Goncalves has shown glimpses but not consistent enough (YET) and we still have more than half a season to go. Dias is very good at covering ground and defensive work - but his attacking side has been lacking.
Our weakness in my view are :
Cash/Dias - both are not good enough for what we need. We need another Lolley for the other wing.
Centre backs - we need better ones - upgrades as opposed to replacements. `Hate` is a bit over the top ... at the end of the day they werent `forced` on us ... what I always try to emphasize is that I think that the price tags put on their heads were not realistic and for the so called `potential` we are paying too much ...just that... paying six million with further addition as is one thing but to stamp 12 million ... thats another matter... for the sake of the club, hope I am wrong in my judgement but from what i seen so far, I am not convinced that we made a good deal with the portugese boys...
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(16-12-2018, 09:57 AM)GaribaldiRED Wrote: Not sure how you define a luxury player but in my book that is a player who is only contributing in attack. If we use my definition then Carv is definitely not a luxury player. Carv is working very hard for the team both in attack and in defense. He has certainly surprised me with his willingness to contribute defensively (as has Dias). Carv has clearly a lot of ability combined with a quick footballing brain which is a deadly combination and I believe we are seeing more and more of that coming through as he's coming to terms with the pace of the Championship. Please keep in mind that this is a player who is only 21 and has just come to the Championship from a foreign country where he has more or less only played U21 level football. I have to say that I'm quite impressed that he has been able to play in almost all league games since the start of the season and he has been gradually getting better and better. And I don't agree that be had a bad game against Preston. He did have one or two missed passes but he still had a good enough game. There is still a long way to go for Carv but I have no doubt that he will be a very important player for Forest in years to come.
He is not exempt from criticism and his set pieces in particular against Preston were awful.
That said I was hoping to pull out his distance covered statistics over the season so far but haven’t been able to find them yet. I think he covers more ground than people realise.
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(16-12-2018, 11:12 AM)Redgirl Wrote: (15-12-2018, 05:32 PM)Maltared Wrote: (15-12-2018, 03:30 PM)zicorice Wrote: Carvalho is a class act. I love watching him play. He will be worth double what we paid in a year or two. If he was the complete package already we would never have been able to sign him, let alone for 15mill. When ever we get the ball I take a quick look at where he is and invariably he is on the move making himself available, in my head I just think "give him the ball" which we often don't of course with other options around too. He is a proper player and we should enjoy him whilst we can. Forget what he doesnt do, that will follow with experience, just admire what they guy can and does do for us.
Double what we paid in a year or two !!!... we will be lucky to get half of what we paid...he is a luxury player that eventually will have to be sacrificed...for tge so called moments of brilliance he spends alot of time ineffective nd contributing nothing to our play...how many times he had the chance to shoot from outside the box. .nd he doesnt...dont know how many times you have watched us this season...I watched every game nd tell you what...if he was on loan like the other two he will not get half the game time he us getting...we HAVE to play him nd hope he comes good...the less he plays the more his value drops....
You must be watching a different game to me Malta. I love watching him play, he's a talent we haven't seen at Forest for many a year and he will only get better. The championship is a hard league and I should imagine that takes some getting used to.
RedGirl... I am not saying that the boy doesnt have talent or something on those lines... I am just saying that I expect more for what we paid...maybe my standards are a bit too high and I am expecting too much ...again, hands up ... I admit that ... only time will tell us ...
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