The Infrastructure Projects

[Sausage Roll]

This needs to go back on topic or it'll get messy.

[Tricky]

dont think they can do anything with it whilst we still have the lease....

for £250k a year i would be tempted to just keep it.

And then what in 33 years time when the lease has expired?

If we continue to remain in the status quo with the council there will be no development of the ground. Facilities will remain the same and the club will continue to haemorrhage money during the summer months and weeks were there isnt a game at home.

The club have to pay their full time staff 52 weeks of the year. They have to pay ground rents, leasehold, rates, gas, electric 52 weeks per year. The ground only raises revenue for a minimum of 19 weeks per year (cup games may be drawn away and we get knocked out in the first round!). This means for 33 weeks of the year, the City Ground earns absolutely nothing, zilch, nada, f**k all.

The club NEEDS the new Peter Taylor stand, or a new ground in order to have facilities in place to promote additional revenue and financial incomings. It cannot afford to do nothing. If it does, we could be facing into the abyss in the not too distant future, due to rising costs of running a football club. Off course, the other viable option would be to charge ridiculously sky high admission fees to the fans, but if that is the case, how many fans will be priced out of attending? Would that leave many empty seats in a stadium capacity of nearly 30,000, in which case what is the point? The City Council will know this. 

My main worry is over the fact that the City Council are now effectively being run by Government Commisioners who are more than likely not local people and will have no understanding or attachment to a football club. They will want the maximum amounts incoming to balance the Council books, that is their remit from this Tory Government. Unless somebody tells Sunak that there are illegal immigrants entering the country via the Trent, him and his bunch of reprobates wont give a f**k about our club.

IF the club feel they have no option but to move to a new purpose built ground, as much as my heart would break if we did so, it would have to be somewhere in the City. Somewhere local. I keep seeing Toton Sidings being bandied about. NOOOOO!! That is way out of the way with S**t transport links to it. The extra distance would put many people off attending, especially if admission costs go up as well. What point then is there having a 45.000-50,000 capacity ground if the attendances drop to below what we are already achieving?

With regards to the option of buying the lease from the council, bear this in mind...........just less than twenty years ago, the value of the land the City Ground sits on was estimated to be worth over £100,000,000 in development value. With the club paying £250,000 per year on the lease, should the Council grant them the 250 year lease, the Council would only be getting £62,000,000 over 250 years for it. From my perspective, the club would need to be doubling the lease fee to £500,000 per year just to allow the Council to break even on the land value.

It has nothing to do with aTory government, or any government of any shape or form, it's to do with council spending, full stop whether its labour (Birmingham) or conservative (Northampton) The commission has a statuary duty to correct the financial situation.

I know. My point was they wont give two f***s about our club. My point about this government was all they are interested in is 'stopping the boats', not helping to save famous, important community assets. I didnt word it right. My apologies. 

The point is, if it was just the City Council making the decision, then they will rightly be put under pressure by the electorate, who they will be desperate to want their votes. Government appointed Commissioners wont have that worry or pressure, which is bad for us.

[wassy04]

dont think they can do anything with it whilst we still have the lease....

for £250k a year i would be tempted to just keep it.

And then what in 33 years time when the lease has expired?

If we continue to remain in the status quo with the council there will be no development of the ground. Facilities will remain the same and the club will continue to haemorrhage money during the summer months and weeks were there isnt a game at home.

The club have to pay their full time staff 52 weeks of the year. They have to pay ground rents, leasehold, rates, gas, electric 52 weeks per year. The ground only raises revenue for a minimum of 19 weeks per year (cup games may be drawn away and we get knocked out in the first round!). This means for 33 weeks of the year, the City Ground earns absolutely nothing, zilch, nada, f**k all.

The club NEEDS the new Peter Taylor stand, or a new ground in order to have facilities in place to promote additional revenue and financial incomings. It cannot afford to do nothing. If it does, we could be facing into the abyss in the not too distant future, due to rising costs of running a football club. Off course, the other viable option would be to charge ridiculously sky high admission fees to the fans, but if that is the case, how many fans will be priced out of attending? Would that leave many empty seats in a stadium capacity of nearly 30,000, in which case what is the point? The City Council will know this. 

My main worry is over the fact that the City Council are now effectively being run by Government Commisioners who are more than likely not local people and will have no understanding or attachment to a football club. They will want the maximum amounts incoming to balance the Council books, that is their remit from this Tory Government. Unless somebody tells Sunak that there are illegal immigrants entering the country via the Trent, him and his bunch of reprobates wont give a f**k about our club.

IF the club feel they have no option but to move to a new purpose built ground, as much as my heart would break if we did so, it would have to be somewhere in the City. Somewhere local. I keep seeing Toton Sidings being bandied about. NOOOOO!! That is way out of the way with S**t transport links to it. The extra distance would put many people off attending, especially if admission costs go up as well. What point then is there having a 45.000-50,000 capacity ground if the attendances drop to below what we are already achieving?

With regards to the option of buying the lease from the council, bear this in mind...........just less than twenty years ago, the value of the land the City Ground sits on was estimated to be worth over £100,000,000 in development value. With the club paying £250,000 per year on the lease, should the Council grant them the 250 year lease, the Council would only be getting £62,000,000 over 250 years for it. From my perspective, the club would need to be doubling the lease fee to £500,000 per year just to allow the Council to break even on the land value.

It has nothing to do with aTory government, or any government of any shape or form, it's to do with council spending, full stop whether its labour (Birmingham) or conservative (Northampton) The commission has a statuary duty to correct the financial situation.

Also, from a purely political standpoint, I'm not sure taking on the football club is the greatest political move as I'm pretty sure I know which one is more popular!

[Trailer Park Tom]

This needs to go back on topic or it'll get messy.

Proper Lionel Messi.

[Marco Polo]

This needs to go back on topic or it'll get messy.

Agreed, let’s get back on topic. I think we’re all agreed that only a fool would still be supporting the Tories after the complete mess they’ve made of the country.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

No politics chaps FFS.

Back to Nottingham Forest and back to Infrastructure projects.

[Username]

From a personal perspective, if we move ground, I think I'm done chucking any further cash at club.

I appreciate that it will have no bearing on the club financially or strategically, some other sap will simply fill the gap I leave, and pretty quickly.

I simply can't bring myself to watching us is in some soulless purpose built bowl. I've visited enough in my time to know what it will be like and anyone who has had the misfortune to visit the Olympic Stadium over the last two seasons will understand.

It's ironic that we sang "you sold your soul, for this shithole" only to potentially run into the same situation with open arms.

I realise that moving ground doesn't effect a lot of people that post on here and on the likes of X but to be honest the prospect of it really saddens me.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Everyone keeps chucking the soulless bowl argument out there but a new ground doesn’t have to be built that way.
I agree the betting.com flatpack arena in a field near Gamston is a disaster but I think everyone realises we can do better than that.
The biggest failure would be the do nothing option because the current stadium is hopeless and I mean all of it, not just the PT stand.

[stirred]

From a personal perspective, if we move ground, I think I'm done chucking any further cash at club.

I appreciate that it will have no bearing on the club financially or strategically, some other sap will simply fill the gap I leave, and pretty quickly.

I simply can't bring myself to watching us is in some soulless purpose built bowl. I've visited enough in my time to know what it will be like and anyone who has had the misfortune to visit the Olympic Stadium over the last two seasons will understand.

It's ironic that we sang "you sold your soul, for this shithole" only to potentially run into the same situation with open arms.

I realise that moving ground doesn't effect a lot of people that post on here and on the likes of X but to be honest the prospect of it really saddens me.

Some assumptions there. That it won't affect a lot of people on here - bit of an unnecessary dig that? That it would be to a soulless bowl? I'd make my decision based on any proposals once I've seen them. Being open-minded based on the restrictions and recognizing the need for expansion, that seems entirely reasonable. If it is a soulless bowl near the motorway then I expect most people would agree with you. As I said, what about the location the other side of the river next to Meadow Lane. 'Genuine question' as they say on the internet - Would you consider that? We could still have a Trent End etc.

But refusing to consider it when apart from anything we are locking many thousands of supporters out from seeing their club can't go on. I hear an attitude from some, not accusing you but I'll make the point while I'm on, along the lines of 'I have tickets, if you don't then where were you when we were in the Championship'. Its an extremely short sighted way to view it, not being able to bring in new kids to start watching us for one, and a multitude of reasons why people couldn't have season tickets, its a problem. We need a massive increase in capacity, and better facilities, there is no getting around that. I'd like to stay in the current place, but there has to be a massive revamp, so show me plans and I'll decide, that seems fair.

[wassy04]

From a personal perspective, if we move ground, I think I'm done chucking any further cash at club.

I appreciate that it will have no bearing on the club financially or strategically, some other sap will simply fill the gap I leave, and pretty quickly.

I simply can't bring myself to watching us is in some soulless purpose built bowl. I've visited enough in my time to know what it will be like and anyone who has had the misfortune to visit the Olympic Stadium over the last two seasons will understand.

It's ironic that we sang "you sold your soul, for this shithole" only to potentially run into the same situation with open arms.

I realise that moving ground doesn't effect a lot of people that post on here and on the likes of X but to be honest the prospect of it really saddens me.

Some assumptions there. That it won't affect a lot of people on here - bit of an unnecessary dig that? That it would be to a soulless bowl? I'd make my decision based on any proposals once I've seen them. Being open-minded based on the restrictions and recognizing the need for expansion, that seems entirely reasonable. If it is a soulless bowl near the motorway then I expect most people would agree with you. As I said, what about the location the other side of the river next to Meadow Lane. 'Genuine question' as they say on the internet - Would you consider that? We could still have a Trent End etc.

But refusing to consider it when apart from anything we are locking many thousands of supporters out from seeing their club can't go on. I hear an attitude from some, not accusing you but I'll make the point while I'm on, along the lines of 'I have tickets, if you don't then where were you when we were in the Championship'. Its an extremely short sighted way to view it, not being able to bring in new kids to start watching us for one, and a multitude of reasons why people couldn't have season tickets, its a problem. We need a massive increase in capacity, and better facilities, there is no getting around that. I'd like to stay in the current place, but there has to be a massive revamp, so show me plans and I'll decide, that seems fair.

Just on the last point, 100% agree, I personally don't live in Nottingham (never have in fact, my Dad is from the area though), we had season tickets for a few years and I travelled from York. Gave them up during covid and then we didn't have any way of getting them after the promotion season when my Dad was more comfortable going again. Got membership now but once you don't have it you allocate the time/funds elsewhere. Feels like I would've had a season ticket if available after promotion yet if offered now I doubt I would be able to afford it meaning the window has gone. I wonder how many others have similar stories to tell. Just missed income from the club due to not having a big enough stadium and was a shame not to be able to enjoy all the first season back after the dross I witnessed as a ST holder pre-covid. 

I wouldn't want us to move unless there was a decent proposal on the table. For the money it's cost I'd hope we'd be able to do something good akin to recent stadiums like Spurs and presumably Everton when that is built. Look across at the US where they regularly modernise/upgrade/rebuild stadiums and there are some impressive ones out there. Spurs seems to be the peak in the UK which whilst being an impressive stadium, just shows that the bar wasn't particularly high before that.

[BomberBowyer]

From a personal perspective, if we move ground, I think I'm done chucking any further cash at club.

I appreciate that it will have no bearing on the club financially or strategically, some other sap will simply fill the gap I leave, and pretty quickly.

I simply can't bring myself to watching us is in some soulless purpose built bowl. I've visited enough in my time to know what it will be like and anyone who has had the misfortune to visit the Olympic Stadium over the last two seasons will understand.

It's ironic that we sang "you sold your soul, for this shithole" only to potentially run into the same situation with open arms.

I realise that moving ground doesn't effect a lot of people that post on here and on the likes of X but to be honest the prospect of it really saddens me.

Some assumptions there. That it won't affect a lot of people on here - bit of an unnecessary dig that? That it would be to a soulless bowl? I'd make my decision based on any proposals once I've seen them. Being open-minded based on the restrictions and recognizing the need for expansion, that seems entirely reasonable. If it is a soulless bowl near the motorway then I expect most people would agree with you. As I said, what about the location the other side of the river next to Meadow Lane. 'Genuine question' as they say on the internet - Would you consider that? We could still have a Trent End etc.

But refusing to consider it when apart from anything we are locking many thousands of supporters out from seeing their club can't go on. I hear an attitude from some, not accusing you but I'll make the point while I'm on, along the lines of 'I have tickets, if you don't then where were you when we were in the Championship'. Its an extremely short sighted way to view it, not being able to bring in new kids to start watching us for one, and a multitude of reasons why people couldn't have season tickets, its a problem. We need a massive increase in capacity, and better facilities, there is no getting around that. I'd like to stay in the current place, but there has to be a massive revamp, so show me plans and I'll decide, that seems fair.

Just on the last point, 100% agree, I personally don't live in Nottingham (never have in fact, my Dad is from the area though), we had season tickets for a few years and I travelled from York. Gave them up during covid and then we didn't have any way of getting them after the promotion season when my Dad was more comfortable going again. Got membership now but once you don't have it you allocate the time/funds elsewhere. Feels like I would've had a season ticket if available after promotion yet if offered now I doubt I would be able to afford it meaning the window has gone. I wonder how many others have similar stories to tell. Just missed income from the club due to not having a big enough stadium and was a shame not to be able to enjoy all the first season back after the dross I witnessed as a ST holder pre-covid. 

I wouldn't want us to move unless there was a decent proposal on the table. For the money it's cost I'd hope we'd be able to do something good akin to recent stadiums like Spurs and presumably Everton when that is built. Look across at the US where they regularly modernise/upgrade/rebuild stadiums and there are some impressive ones out there. Spurs seems to be the peak in the UK which whilst being an impressive stadium, just shows that the bar wasn't particularly high before that.

I don’t think any of us want to move from the City Ground but it may have to be an option and if so, then surely as fans we continue to support and attend games no matter? Just because other new grounds might be souless it doesn’t mean any new Forest ground would be. Surely the atmosphere isnwhat fans make it. Was Wembley for the playoff final souless for instance?

[Tricky]

No politics chaps FFS.

Back to Nottingham Forest and back to Infrastructure projects.

Sorry Sniff, my fault.

Just remember though that politics affects us in all walks of life. Take out my comments about the Government and I have put forward a factual thread about the land values etc. That is politics too, but it is essential politics. 

Interesting though that nobody commented on the facts I presented, just on the naming of this government etc.

But I will try to keep my comments as A-political as possible 

Apologies