Karanka v MON & Keane

[Strawberry Avenger]

Interesting reading back on this thread now.

Hmm.  I'll have to read the thread.

But as a general concept.  MoN/Keane haven't had a year yet.

And Aitor's achievements in the game of management aren't big enough to fit Martin's shoes.

If you threaten to leave or walk out...sooner or later your boss will call your bluff.

Even Clough learnt that lesson the hard way at Derby...

SA.

[Reds73]

Ireland's style of play was shocking.

All the players hated Keane. He really is hated nobody likes him. I couldnt see it working now.

Dave Bassetts style of play was wretched before Forest - yet at Forest he got us playing superb football

According to Villa, Celtic and my recollections of Leicester was that they played front foot, aggressive, good football.

With best will at Eire, he never had the quality to be expansive.

Just hope last weekend was a one off and he gets back to playing proper football and includes Carvalho

The AK side was just short of 3/4 players

No need for MON to rip up the manual

[Strawberry Avenger]

Ireland's style of play was shocking.

All the players hated Keane. He really is hated nobody likes him. I couldnt see it working now.

Dave Bassetts style of play was wretched before Forest - yet at Forest he got us playing superb football

According to Villa, Celtic and my recollections of Leicester was that they played front foot, aggressive, good football.

With best will at Eire, he never had the quality to be expansive.

Just hope last weekend was a one off and he gets back to playing proper football and includes Carvalho

The AK side was just short of 3/4 players

No need for MON to rip up the manual

Very fond memories of Dave at Forest.  Meat and two veg.  2 by four.  'Did what it said on the tin' style manager. Some superb football from Forest under his leadership which I was apprehensive about. He sure proved me wrong. :P

I could take front foot, aggressive and good football right now vs Wigan.  Hard to argue with the results at Leicester, Celtic, Villa.  I remember his Leicester team giving all teams in the Premier a very hard time.  Ie.  A robust, dynamic and competitive outfit.  Celtic.  Very, very robust.  Gave Rangers a very hard time up there.

I think he needs to make Forest robust with the new signings.  4-5 signings in the right areas to toughen up the spine of the side and add some dynamic to the side which seems very 1 footed and predictable to me.  This won't last under Martin.  He will do what he will.  And confidence in that I have.

Car?  The one surprise from Sat' was that he didn't plump for a 3-5-2 or variation of to get Car' in the side.  But I suspect more to Car's absence from the 1st team than meets the eye.

But it was telling that Martin went 442.  It almost felt like a political decision to show fans, the hierarchy and the team itself where they actually are.

Mid table.

After all.  If those players were good enough, surely they could have dispatched City or drawn at least.  But the fact Forest didn't have Dawson in that side (the one that drew with City at their place...) and the fact that the CM simply didn't seem to be able to cope or our RB didn't seem able to copy gave Martin a 'fair idea' (his words) of what his team 'can do.'

A telling comment.

He might not rip up the manual.  Just the spine of the side.  (I look forward to the rest of his 'four' signings...)

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Martin O'Neil and Roy Keane have been sacked by Ireland today.

Would you swap AK for the pair?

Me, no, but who knows, 4 or 5 bad results before now and Christmas for us and we might eventually get our man!

It means there's some good managerial candidates around at the moment with Jokanovic and Bruce both out of work too.

No thanks.

Martin O'Neil and Keane are best remembered for their contributions under Brian Clough.  

Martin the manager, has, like Aitor, been backed with big money under many of his tenure.  He'd want that here and does that make him any different to the criticisms of Aitor as a 'check book' manager.  (Which maybe true.  But most managers who have got teams out of this division have spent money...  We now have a manager who can spend wisely.  The team is better the squad is deeper.  If he doesn't deliver, he'll lose his job like the rest did.)

Martin's football at Leicester was 'direct.'  The politest thing you could say.  He got them promoted via the play offs by the skin of their teeth and stayed in the Premier for a good few years.  Again, I remember the football being 'direct.'  He went to Scotland to manager Celtic.  I recall one Rangers fan I knew saying that his teams played ugly football that would kick Rangers off the park.  Again, 'direct.'  That sounds like a downgrade from the Aitor game Forest are currently playing.

Keane.  Great player.  He's his 'own' man.  That aside.  As a manager?  He got Sunderland promoted.  That was it.  What else has he done?

Neither have had great footballing ethos or teams that were particularly good footballing sides or technical.  Keane blew a lot of money at Ipswich.  On mediocre players.  Did he get them promoted?

They've been sacked from the national side.  Maybe their were 'unlucky.'  Or they had what they had to work with.

Either way.  Martin had his chance to come at Forest when he was at the 'height' of his managerial powers.  Keane?  Maybe he had his chance.  Nigel Clough too.

They 'all' turned Forest down.

Aitor is getting the job done.  This is his first full year in charge of Forest.  7th and flirting with play offs and potentially a top 2 if they put consistency together...is significant progress.

The football is beginning to deliver with time.  The side are becoming more consistent.  The leaks at the back are beginning to dry up.  Note.  Fox isn't in the side.  Yes, I know his performances were lauded but, Dawson at the back AND Robinson have made a massive difference.  But credit Aitor for that.  It takes time to do that.  

Forest bought a lot of pieces over the eleven months.  Takes time for them to settle.  And settling they are.

January.  LB, DCM enforcer with legs and progressive passing, ACM with experience and match winning capability, Winger with power and pace and experience, STRIKER with power and pace.

SA.

SA, you're a bl**dy disgrace.

I meant to say, 'Yes please...'

LOL.  *Somebody hand me a shot gun...

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

'Politics. It makes liars of us all.' (Some Irish man.)

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

One other thing I was thinking about (do excuse me, it happens occasionally...) is the old Billy Davies formation.

Was it a 4-3-3 in attack and 4-5-1 in defending?

Perhaps that would suit out personal a bit more. That said, you still need players who can handle themselves and the system. I'm not sure we have them. Or we wouldn't be talking about 4-5 new players.

I'll have a crack at teh 4-3-3.

Pants.

Dar. Benu Fox. Jack. (That back line still doesn't look right. Fig, Dawson and Heph. All out for ages with serious injuries...so we need to get another in to have Fox and Jack as cover.)

Yacob (in front of the defence.)

Geddy Colback (as more progressive roles ahead of him.)

Car (behind the front two)

Murphy. Grabban. (Hmm.)

See. That's not quite Davies like. Because his two wide men in the front three would track back. So I haven't done that right. So who covers the fullbacks? I guess you'd push Geddy and Colback out a bit wider and tuck the fullbacks in a tough narrower and play a compact game. (Didn't Davies have the pitch narrowed?)

SA.

[Redgirl]

Talking of Keane has anyone heard anything with regard to him joking us?

[Strawberry Avenger]

Aitor vs Martin O' Neill/Keane.

Of course. I'd take that swap anytime.

Who wouldn't, eh?

SA. *Fixed that with myself at gunpoint.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Talking of Keane has anyone heard anything with regard to him joking us?

I hope he's not joking us... ;)

I think Martin alluded to a mix or personal and other commitments and that this would need some time to sort out.

But there's a 'spot open for him' if(!) he wants it.

Time will tell on this one.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

SA, you're a bl**dy disgrace.

I meant to say, 'Yes please...'

LOL.  *Somebody hand me a shot gun...

SA.

+1 rating for owning it & not hiding

Eh...a bit embarrassing. I started reading it...and then realised it was mine. :O

Everyone should have a Clement Attlee moment in their lives...

SA.

[Username]

I would have preferred us to stick with AK, there has been nothing yet to suggest it was a good decision to make the change, hopefully the reasons why materialise soon or that’s another season pi**ed up the wal.

[Reds73]

hopefully the reasons why materialise soon..

If you mean with regards to AK's departure then you are unlikely to hear much more, due to confidentiality clauses. I won't rehash old ground but enough is public to know that this wasn't Captain Evil V's Saint Karanka the innocent, & that some blame can be apportioned to BOTH sides & that the narrative of the sweet, innocent, entirely blameless Karanka, hounded out by the big evil meanies, just because they're an evil bunch of... is a work of fiction.

The main thing all fans need to know is AK has gone & probably won't be seen in Nottingham ever again, while the club is still here so it's probably best to move on, just like AK has done & to stop holding on to him & using him as a negative black cloud above the club.

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