Nottingham Forest Academy And Under 21's

[Sausage Roll]

Finished 1-0. It was En-Neyah who scored rather than Bridcutt.

[Widdow]

I wonder how Pele got on? I expected him, a 9M euro Monaco player to be ready to go and compete for a place in our midfield. Started on bench and then dropped to the u23, he cannot have shown that much in training.

[the jock]

I wonder how Pele got on? I expected him, a 9M euro Monaco player to be ready to go and compete for a place in our midfield. Started on bench and then dropped to the u23, he cannot have shown that much in training.

was about to say the same thing. the nottingham post are saying that bridcutt was the best player.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Reds Under-23s v Sheffield United, Pele, Bridcutt, Ward and Appiah all start, this afternoon.

Interesting that Bridcutt, Appiah, Pele and Ward all start.  

I wonder if Martin and Roy will be watching this one?

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

To be fair to Ward he did have a few really good games under Warburton in the season we stayed up on the last day.

Some have already mentioned Ipswich.

I can also remember against Huddersfield at home he was absolutely brilliant.

Back on track. That is a decent midfield that our under 23's have put out today, Pele, Bridcutt, Appiah and Ward.

He, like Smith, deserve a big deal of credit for keeping Forest up Vs Ipswich.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

I wonder how Pele got on? I expected him, a 9M euro Monaco player to be ready to go and compete for a place in our midfield. Started on bench and then dropped to the u23, he cannot have shown that much in training.

Fitness?  Like Bonatini?

For a 9m euro player, I'm expecting quality that Forest desperately need in CM.

SA.

[ThePromisedLand]

Bridcutt: MOM ( though not difficult in a poor game ) showing great appetite & energy.
Pelé: Difficult to judge - not sure he’s fully fit? Decent on the ball but didn’t get out of second gear. Played for an hour.
Ward: Couldn’t be arsed - played 75 mins but contributed zilch.

Good to see all the coaching staff there ( plus Watson & Daws ). They’re clearly not fully up to speed with some of the younger lads - Keano had to refer to his teamsheet a number of times.

[Strawberry Avenger]

I wonder how Pele got on? I expected him, a 9M euro Monaco player to be ready to go and compete for a place in our midfield. Started on bench and then dropped to the u23, he cannot have shown that much in training.

was about to say the same thing. the nottingham post are saying that bridcutt was the best player.

All of a sudden, players are raising their games.  Good to see Bridcutt stating his case. Maybe the 'b' team see a way forward or through with Martin in charge?

vs. WBA.  Could have him as the more advanced of a x3 DCM midfield ahead of Yates and Watson.

That's a CM that would take some getting through.

Have 3 attackers ahead of them.

SA.

[the jock]

Bridcutt: MOM ( though not difficult in a poor game ) showing great appetite & energy.
Pelé: Difficult to judge - not sure he’s fully fit? Decent on the ball but didn’t get out of second gear. Played for an hour.
Ward: Couldn’t be arsed - played 75 mins but contributed zilch.

Good to see all the coaching staff there ( plus Watson & Daws ). They’re clearly not fully up to speed with some of the younger lads - Keano had to refer to his teamsheet a number of times.

thanks for the info!

[Strawberry Avenger]

Bridcutt: MOM ( though not difficult in a poor game ) showing great appetite & energy.
Pelé: Difficult to judge - not sure he’s fully fit? Decent on the ball but didn’t get out of second gear. Played for an hour.
Ward: Couldn’t be arsed - played 75 mins but contributed zilch.

Good to see all the coaching staff there ( plus Watson & Daws ). They’re clearly not fully up to speed with some of the younger lads - Keano had to refer to his teamsheet a number of times.

Thanks for the info'.

Martin values appetite and energy.  So Bridcutt might catch his eye.
Pele.  Decent on the ball sounds promising.  He can't be fit.  If he was, I doubt Forest would have got him.
Ward.  Surely he's finished at Forest?

Great to hear all the coaching staff were there as well as Watto and Daws.  That's what you want to hear.  Senior players taking an interest.

Referring to the team sheet.  Perhaps they'll look at the squad with fresh eyes.  (The game against Brentford suggests that.)  Especially in regard to the youth.  Eg. Yates started vs Brentford.  Didn't seem out of place at all.  An impressive debut I thought.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Let's try & get the thread back on to the academy, & current academy players, rather than putting down Joe Worrall

In my opinion it's something we need to work on a little...

Last year under Warburton the youngsters were really given their head, we saw Smith, Worrall, Walker, Brereton, & Cash all feature heavily (I'm not including Osborn because he's an established senior now) & they did well, but there were mistakes made, as you'd expect from youngsters finding their feet in the game, & sometimes that impacted results, but generally the players were progressing.

This season we've swung the other way, only really Cash has featured heavily & whilst not wishing to detract from his performances his inclusion was also partially due to Soudani's injury & the relative disappointment of Dias, leaving limited options down the right side (& to be honest I'm still not convinced that is Cash's strongest position).

There is an argument that if you're chasing promotion it's perhaps not best to be over reliant on youth & that with the short shelf life of Championship managers they are likely to be reluctant to throw youth in at the deep end, & to be over reliant on them.

I do have a certain sympathy for that position, if my job was permanently on the line I'd be tempted to go with tried & tested players, rather than gamble to heavily on youth.

However, when I was very young a man I consider to be a very wise man told me that if you wanted to measure the health of a  football club you should do that by measuring the health of it's youth set up. Young blood is the lifeline of a club, it's where both future stars & future revenue comes from.

It's why I've always followed youth football, it's why I'm in this thread now.

However you don't have to follow one extreme, or another, you don't have to field 11 youngsters & risk not reaching your goals, nor do you have to discard your youth for short term gains.

There is a middle path, a healthy path, a balanced path, one where you can blood youngsters when they're ready, but when it's not possible, or appropriate to use them you don't have to ignore them, discard them, or leave them in limbo on the training ground.

It's been implied to me that this middle path is the one Forest desires to pursue, they want results, they want glory & they want it now, but they are also prepared to invest heavily in youth & to develop players to either play & contribute to those goals, or in other cases to sell, to provide revenue.

I know the second of those options is not that romantic, but football is not just entertainment it is also a business & sometimes that means taking the cold option.

To achieve the middle path you need forward planning, both for the benefit of the club & for the benefit of the player. You have to know what's intended for the future.

We have a myriad of talent in our youth system at the moment & as many are aware we also have a couple of young talents on the cusp of the first team in the form of Yates & Appiah & while they will have benefited from training with the first team squad this season in other aspects their development has been stunted a little this past year by a lack of actual football.

Both of those players are at a stage of their careers where they need to be playing some regular football & neither has really been afforded that opportunity & that's what I meant above when I said that this is an area we can improve on a little.

When the top brass comes knocking on the managers door & says "So what about young NG3, we're getting a little outside interest in him, what's the plan?" the answer "Well he's training with the first team squad" only holds up for so long.

What they want to know is should he be playing in the youth set up, or should he be in the first team, or should he be out on loan, or if none of the above are applicable should we be considering that interest & looking to cash in?

It's that pathway thing again.

It's knowing not just what you're going to do with them today, or tomorrow, but next month, & next season as well.

Someone asked me the other week about the appointment of Kyriakos Dourekas & I answered that I don't know the guy personally, so I can't comment on how good, or bad, he is at the job, but having someone do that job was an essential piece of the puzzle that we've been missing for years & this is an example of where the importance of that appointment comes in.

Dourekas will be a part of facilitating that pathway, by liassing with all the departments within the club, so that the right path can be determined for youth players, & ensuring that they are not left to stagnate on the training ground, or to use the example of Jorge Grant, still out on loan & still being evaluated, as a youth prospect, long past their 24th birthday & long past the point where their future should have been decided.

This is important for the club & it's also important for the young players, as they need clarity too.

The dream of playing is still the big dream, or at least it should be, because if a youngster is chasing the money he is doing it wrong.

Take care of the football & the money will follow naturally.

But to believe in the dream of playing the player has to see the pathway, & for him to see the pathway it has to be clear & determined.

It needs vision not just from the player, but also the club.

It's something we need to work on & something we are working on, not just with the large increase in spending on facilities & the academy, that people will see in the near future, but also by ensuring we have the right structure, with people working together, full time, to ensure we have a healthy youth structure that provides a vision & a pathway for the young talent that we produce.

Also for those that missed it a couple of pages ago

Alex Mighten has been called up for the England U17s for a pair of friendlies this week.

This is a decent post, NG3. 

I can now see what you're saying regarding another key piece of the background structure/running of the club.

I can also understand why the club asked why Appiah (who was doing so well for the u23s...) wasn't playing for the 1st team.  Yates too, maybe (he's already been given his chance under Martin.)

Yates, Worrall and Appiah.  There seemed to be a bit of indecision about these three players.  (I'm guessing based on the fact they weren't in the 1st team this time around or given sufficient opportunity.  Between going out on loan and training with the 1st team squad.  If it's the latter they have to be given chances?)  Again.  Gradually introduced and see if they step up to the grade.  Yates against Brentford (of all teams) stated his case strongly with an impressive debut.  Appiah hasn't really been given a proper go.  And Worrall, for 'personal' reasons got shipped out when surely, he was ready for gradual introduction to the 1st team?

Grant, looked at with less romantic eyes, maybe 24 and if he's not playing for the 1st team he gets sold on to a lower league team eg. Mansfield or Notts.  Both he's doing well for.  I'd like to have had him given more of a chance this season to know once and for all.  Going back to Mansfield seems like a sideways step for Grant.  He's done League 2 already.  He didn't seem to feature all that much for League 1 Luton ergo the recall?  This seems to tell us that he's found his level.  The romantic in me sees the goals he banged in for County last season and thinks he should have been given a chance.  But doesn't he do enough in games other than pop up with a goal?  Is he strong enough for the Championship?  

I felt last season was a bit of the 'in at the deep end' for the youngsters.  They didn't get a chance to be introduced gradually to the side.  Things can start bright and breezy.  And yes, young players make mistakes and as the season went on...some of them seem battle weary.  (I recall when Harty went with youth....they took a similar dip in form after a bright start. I think they then fortified the youth with more experienced quality and we went on for the top 6/play off push.)

If the average championship promotion team is aged 29 then it makes sense that you'd mainly have players who can do it right now peppered with several youngsters than can add vitality and zip to a team while having a very experienced spine to the side.  Leeds have a bit of youth in their side?

At least with the new incumbent, we'll be asking more decisive questions.  Eg.  Is this player 1st team or sold, on loan, u23s?

Forest seem to have loads of decisions to make in the Summer.  There's quite a few with contracts up in the Summer.  And in 2020?  I noted Worrall's contract was up?  Something that may need addressing soon.

SA.

[Sausage Roll]

Danny Preston has tweeted that he's signed a new deal.