Are The First Cracks Starting To Appear?

[Strawberry Avenger]

I don’t think Marinakis has much to do with the day to day running of the club at all so I can’t see how he’d talk much to AK in the first place for there relationship to break down. AK is probably looking unhappy after the games because he is unhappy with our performances. We’re still making the same mistakes of last season at the back and our new forward players aren’t creating much at all.

Aye.  Frustration probably.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

for sure SA! some are young men in a new country with a new style of football. will take time.

Aye.  That's why, I wonder...if the swirling rumours for Ojo, Swaiss and even Oli' refuse to go away.

They're in 3 positions I don't think we have enough power, energy, pace or finishing.

I don't think Project Forest is finished yet.  Still missing 3-4 really good players with the above characteristics to dominate the top 6 and push for the top 2.

SA.

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not sure ive ever seen AK look particularly happy!  the key early in the season is to be in the mix.  which we are.  need to keep in the mix and then kick on around christmas.

I have.  Sometimes he laughs and smiles in the interviews or pan faced dry humour.  But he's given to a dour, serious demeanour.  All part of this passionate mystique, I guess.

SA.

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not sure ive ever seen AK look particularly happy! 

I don't think he can afford to be happy, he'll know the pressures on. The target is promotion, if he falls off that pace he'll be in danger. He'll know that. It is all very clear cut this season.

I'm still pretty cool about things, as we've still got half a dozen games in which to get going yet, despite some worrying concerns.

There does seem to be a lack of faith though, amongst many, the old telltale signs are there, denial, anger,  & bargaining.

Denial, where some ignore obvious issues, instead immersing themselves in soothing narratives & flawed statistics to tell themselves the problems don't exist.

Anger, where they shout abuse at individual players & fellow fans.

& bargaining, where they propose different players & formations, usually at complete odds with that managers history, in the hope that if the manager changes completely we won't have to change the manager.

Denial, anger,  & bargaining have always been a good barometer of where the fans really stand.

Win against Birmingham & you'll see less of those things, lose & you'll see them ramp up.

To my mind Birmingham is an important game, it's our last "easy" game for a while. We've had quite an easy opening fixture list, so far, 3 teams tipped to be bottom half & lower league Bury, with only WBA as our only opponents, to date, tipped to be top half.

Birmingham is another team tipped for the bottom half, so it would be nice to get a win for confidence & momentum, not least because the 3 games after that are a step up, with Premier league Newcastle in the cup, followed by 2 tough away games at Brentford & Swansea, both fancied for the top half this season.

Forest fans can only go on what they experience per game.

Pre-season, Forest looked very good.  But life in the Championship is very different for young(!) new recruits like the Portuguese contingent.  They aren't playing velvet football, they're being exposed to kick and ruck, high pressing, high octane muck and nettles football.

Forest have soft fullbacks.  Being targeted by the opposition.  Not sure our wingers are tracking back that well so far against said teams.  ...and other teams will notice that.  DCM.  Not sure we have the final solution with Watson's legs about to give out, Geddy injured, Yates young and Liam not fancied by the manager.  Who is providing the drive chain to the side going forwards? The energy? To stop the opposition and get it going in the opposite direction?

Left side seems to being targeted by the opposition, behind the wings in front of the fullbacks(?)  Danny Fox had 3 on him.  So is he commanding in the air?  He's played out of his skin though.  Car', does he hold the ball up well enough?  Hot and cold?  Can he last 90 minutes yet?  Can Grabban score?  Can he head?  Can he try?  Does he get the service he requires?

If Dawson, Watson and Soudani don't play to begin with.  Who provides the steel to Forest's spine?

Lots of questions.

Forest brought in 23 players over Jan' and Summer.  Sounds great.  But that only highlights how far behind Forest were in competing with e.g. Villa in the top 6 last season.  ...and I still think Forest need another 3-4 powerful, pacey and energetic players in the left wing, DCM, ACM and a striker who offers a combination of Murphy and Bre' as both are over or under the 'prime'.  Greedy or not.

SA.

[optimistic_red]

Forest brought in 23 players over Jan' and Summer.  Sounds great.  But that only highlights how far behind Forest were in competing with e.g. Villa in the top 6 last season.  ...and I still think Forest need another 3-4 powerful, pacey and energetic players in the left wing, DCM, ACM and a striker who offers a combination of Murphy and Bre' as both are over or under the 'prime'.  Greedy or not.

SA.

23 new players should be enough! 
Personally I don't want any more, sooner or later the ones we have will have got to get on with it. A few weeks ago most thought the new players were talented, so it's just a question of getting the best out of them.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Aye. Well, the loan window will close real soon. So hopefully Forest have kept Brereton and we will press on.

SA.

[Kylos247]

not sure ive ever seen AK look particularly happy! 

I don't think he can afford to be happy, he'll know the pressures on. The target is promotion, if he falls off that pace he'll be in danger. He'll know that. It is all very clear cut this season.

I'm still pretty cool about things, as we've still got half a dozen games in which to get going yet, despite some worrying concerns.

There does seem to be a lack of faith though, amongst many, the old telltale signs are there, denial, anger,  & bargaining.

Denial, where some ignore obvious issues, instead immersing themselves in soothing narratives & flawed statistics to tell themselves the problems don't exist.

Anger, where they shout abuse at individual players & fellow fans.

& bargaining, where they propose different players & formations, usually at complete odds with that managers history, in the hope that if the manager changes completely we won't have to change the manager.

Denial, anger,  & bargaining have always been a good barometer of where the fans really stand.

Win against Birmingham & you'll see less of those things, lose & you'll see them ramp up.

To my mind Birmingham is an important game, it's our last "easy" game for a while. We've had quite an easy opening fixture list, so far, 3 teams tipped to be bottom half & lower league Bury, with only WBA as our only opponents, to date, tipped to be top half.

Birmingham is another team tipped for the bottom half, so it would be nice to get a win for confidence & momentum, not least because the 3 games after that are a step up, with Premier league Newcastle in the cup, followed by 2 tough away games at Brentford & Swansea, both fancied for the top half this season.

And the ironic thing about all the teams we've played we played our best football against on paper the strongest team. But imo playing relegated teams early is best and promotion teams last.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Yeah. Wigan still have the wind in their sails whilst we got WBA about right. But they seem to be finding their feet after the 7-1 tonkin' of QPR.

It's very early. The Championship 'shake out' usually happens after 10-15 games and a clearer picture emerges.

SA.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Just a sideline to this debate. There seems to be a bit of a consensus that our full backs are “targeted”. Is there any real evidence for this? Pretty well every team tries to attack down the flanks and put a cross in regardless of the opponent. From what I have seen (home games only) we are coping OK with this, the achilles heel which every manager in the league will know is that we cant defend set pieces.
For what its worth though I still would play Robinson at LB and Benny in midfield.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Just a sideline to this debate. There seems to be a bit of a consensus that our full backs are “targeted”. Is there any real evidence for this? Pretty well every team tries to attack down the flanks and put a cross in regardless of the opponent. From what I have seen (home games only) we are coping OK with this, the achilles heel which every manager in the league will know is that we cant defend set pieces.
For what its worth though I still would play Robinson at LB and Benny in midfield.

Well, there are perceived (by the opposition) weaknesses in every side...to be targeted.

What I noted was that Wigan, Reading were that Geddy had several players 'on' him.  Fox too...had 3 on him.  Dawson v Bristol City had 'two' on him which led to the goal.  We don't seem to be stopping the crosses?  Is that because we play a little bit narrow?  Or because Dar' and Benny are just 'cover' fullbacks as opposed to being the real deal aka Byram and Robinson?

eg.  Wigan seemed to be putting the ball into those areas.  

Suggests a lack of aerial authority.  Suggests 'soft' fullbacks.  They get a lot of the play probably due to the way we're set up and 'good luck' trying to get through Geddy/Watson/Colback.  Which suggest the fullbacks are being targeted.

Wigan also seemed to be whipping in crossed balls to the feet of our CHs...

I would agree that Benny goes into midfield or plays wingback in a 3-5-2.  Robinson is an actual LB.  He can also play CH so it suggests he understands the space between the two.

Also, as GaribaldiRED noted.  Yes.  It is a team game to defend. Which starts from the front?  Are the wingers covering Dar' and Os' properly?  eg. Goncalves left Os' exposed for that equaliser vs WBA.  

So, it's never as 'simple' as saying the fullbacks are 'soft'.  There is more to it.  ie.  What are the midfield doing? ie. Do we have the energy and consistency of 'steel' in CM to help stop what Wigan were doing? Seemed to do better when Watson came on. But does he have the legs?

We certainly seemed to do it better pre-season?  But pre-seasons aren't as intense as Championship football?

I'm looking forward to the next five games to see how Forest go. I'd love Forest to beat 'City' at the City Ground and put us back in the top six.

We are just a germinating side. I feel Aitor has most of the pieces to keep us top 6-8. Not sure if we have all the pieces. I'll be happy to be proven wrong though..

I just like Forest to win!

SA.

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Mind you, Pants flapping 'my ball' when a corner decision had been given ruffled his composure...instead of marshalling his defence. Surprised about that. But again, it wasn't 'just his fault.' Why did Fig' do a cr*p back pass...and who gave him the ball from midfield? Why are we playing the ball back in the first few mins? Why was our passing sloppy?

You can't keep having slow starts and giving soft early goals away. But that maybe down to the fact that the real steel in the side of Dawson, Watson and Soudani weren't playing along the spine to start with.

SA.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Those cracks are no doubt getting wider. Tik tok.

[the jock]

Swansea won 3 in a row and we have to play them away next. Not looking good

[Kylos247]

The only thing in our favour is the break, any momentum is now lost in this time. The two big games imo are sheff and Rotherham, home games much improved performances ideally wins. Otherwise I can see Karanka being shown the door.

[Paplane]

Can see us winning both, drawing both and/or losing one !!