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+--- Thread: 442 (/showthread.php?tid=400)
RE: 442 - wassy04 - 20-01-2019
(20-01-2019, 12:49 PM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(20-01-2019, 11:58 AM)Paplane Wrote: I listened to MON's post match interview this morning and have to say was enthused a little by it. He said the players thought that there were too few attackers in the box (under AKs shape) and the 442 was a response to that. So fair enough i supppse.
He also said he would look at it for next saturday.
In which case just contrast the system that Lee Johnson employed yesterday - they regularly got 4 & 5 players into our box ( playing away from home ).
Yeah they were playing something close to 442, well more like 4411. I think shaking up the tactics was needed regardless of formation as it hasn’t been working at home this season full stop.
It was disappointing he didn’t change it when it was clear the strikers were struggling and bring on carvalho. Not sure the chants helped on that front either. If we are going to persist with two strikers we’ll need a new one as we only have two currently (plus Karim...)
RE: 442 - Strawberry Avenger - 20-01-2019
I think it's less to do with formations and more to do with players.
Forest haven't been consistent even in the 'native' 4-2-3-1. (They were getting there...though.)
A sudden move to 4-4-2 highlighted they haven't got the players for that. (Is it a formation that Martin has used a lot?)
Spine of the team isn't strong enough for that?
Such as? Another CH that can command the area. Another CM that has the box to box drive to move the team forward at pace. A mobile striker that can upset defences, make something happen and get behind them.
A keeper that can command his area.
A winger. A battle hardened one.
How many is that now?
...and a quality LB.
...and a quality RB.
How many players is that?
I've lost count.
SA.
RE: 442 - Strawberry Avenger - 20-01-2019
Having said all that. We have smashed the top 8.
But our record against the bottom 8 is poor.
The middle 8? Lots of draws, I think...
Forest are a team in progress. Another couple of transfer windows and 'we' might be ready to storm the top 6.
SA.
RE: 442 - Strawberry Avenger - 20-01-2019
(20-01-2019, 02:58 PM)NG3 Wrote:(20-01-2019, 02:51 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: A sudden move to 4-4-2 highlighted they haven't got the players for that. (Is it a formation that Martin has used a lot?)
No, he's used a lot of systems, but 4-2-3-1 a LOT more than 4-4-2
Well, in that regard, he and the players have knowledge of that system. Maybe 442 showed the limits of our current squad. (And I guess Aitor's recruitment was with 4231 in mind?) I don't seem him playing that system again. I'm not sure Forest would have faired much better even if Car' had been playing. The midfield seemed swamped by the opposition. Forest had good possession stats under Aitor. I don't recall Forest doing that well in recent times with 'one less' in midfield. Our current midfield isn't 'that' good. Not in the centre. Or on the wings. I think our wings are average or lightweight. The centre lacks box to box drive. Unless I'm missing something from yesterday... (Yacob and Colback, as they were yesterday...is it THAT different to Greening and Boateng?) I wonder if a 3-5-2 would have worked better yesterday with Car' ahead of Ya' and Col'? Just musing. I like the idea of two strikers up front...to get goals. Which Forest aren't getting. But maybe they need something more mobile if they're playing '1' up front?
Didn't Leicester, under Martin, play 352? I remember Elliot, Muzzy(?), Hesky and others. They had some good players. I remember Elliot just running into Owen with no intention of getting the ball and Owen fell like bricks. He was out cold. Took him out the game. In short, Leicester could handle themselves.
I think Forest could do with a 'bit of that' to toughen up a bit more against the Bottom 8 teams where Forest have lost alot or most of their points in terms of losses.
Stream of consciousness over.
SA.
RE: 442 - TrickySte - 20-01-2019
(20-01-2019, 01:43 PM)wassy04 Wrote: Yeah they were playing something close to 442, well more like 4411.
I was surprised how deep Paterson played. They more more like 4141 for the first hour. Maybe as a reaction to seeing how easy it was to create overloads all over the place against our sraight lines.
RE: 442 - Strawberry Avenger - 20-01-2019
(20-01-2019, 04:33 PM)NG3 Wrote:(20-01-2019, 03:14 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: Maybe 442 showed the limits of our current squad. (And I guess Aitor's recruitment was with 4231 in mind?)
All season we've been set up for Plan A, with Plan B being to try Plan A harder.
Plan A in itself was not a bad plan, it's a plan BD frequently used against top teams away & even DF used it effectively against teams like Leeds & AK's Boro (when Jamie Wards goal beat them), the trouble is that it's only really effective away from home & if the opposition sets up right for you. At home, or against opposition that sets up differently eg. weaker, less confident teams, it's to negative & lacks ambition, but unlike with BD, we never developed an alternative for such matches (one of the reasons for our shockingly poor home form*).
You can't be that one dimensional in football.
So, yes, when a new man tries something new, we will struggle at first, because our players have only worked on one thing.
*on home form alone we're 14th, with our goals for being 20th.
Seems like a fair assessment. On your last point*, you're not getting top 6 with that. That will average you out against the good away form to mid-table where Forest currently are.
(Ironic that Forest went from Warburton's 'Try plan A harder' to Aitor's 'Try plan A harder.')
It will be interesting to see if Martin can mix things up a bit to ruffle the opposition. But I still feel some shrewd recruitment of 3-4 players will be needed to add spine and steel to the side. Nothing fancy. Catch it. Head it. Kick it. Mix it. Play a bit. Pace.
I look at Norwich (a team Forest put to the sword at their place until the last 5 mins...) and they seemed to have fight to put Millwall to bed while Forest capitulated. It's very Jekyll and Hyde.
It's something that needs addressing if Forest are going to get top 6. Those four losses turned into wins against mediocre Bottom 8 sides would have put Forest well in the play offs.
SA.
RE: 442 - optimistic_red - 21-01-2019
(Ironic that Forest went from Warburton's 'Try plan A harder' to Aitor's 'Try plan A harder.')
That is a great summary of MW and AK.
RE: 442 - Tricky - 22-01-2019
(21-01-2019, 10:34 AM)NG3 Wrote:(21-01-2019, 10:24 AM)optimistic_red Wrote: (Ironic that Forest went from Warburton's 'Try plan A harder' to Aitor's 'Try plan A harder.')
That is a great summary of MW and AK.
It's sadly a far to frequent by product of the modern game where far to many people rely upon the chequebook.
These days it's far to easy to say, when it's not working, "go buy me some other players, & we'll see if they can make it work", where as in the old days, when there was less transfers & money where, if it didn't work, a manager was pretty much stuck with the same group of players & so had to find an alternative plan instead.
Which brings us back to the 'must get promotion at any costs' mentality and the lack of time afforded to managers these days